For an overview of the new Big Tent read this. To understand how the new Big Tent will differentiate itself read this and next read this for the 5 big ideas that shall shape the new Big Tent.
In this post, the first big idea – Freedom to the Individual will be developed further.
To best appreciate this let us rewind to 2002 and some hard facts from the Below Poverty Line (BPL) Census of all Rural Households.
The Rural Ministry has an elaborate web based data base for the full Census data with the ability to drill-down by State, District and Block.
Let us take the example of Andhra Pradesh to illustrate the point based on this report from the Indian Institute of Economics.
|
Table – 5.2 : Preference of Assistance and % ages |
|||
|
1 |
Wage employment |
38,70,537 |
31.62 |
|
2 |
Self Employment |
36,59,237 |
29.91 |
|
3 |
Training & Skill up gradation |
12,01,601 |
9.82 |
|
4 |
Housing |
19,16,590 |
15.66 |
|
5 |
Loan or Subsidy |
15,89,672 |
12.99 |
|
|
Total |
1,22,37,637 |
100 |
From the above table it is clear that more rural poor or the “famed aam admi” prefer either Self Employment or new Skills than those who look to the Government for employment.
To be precise nearly 40% of all rural poor in Andhra Pradesh want the freedom to fulfill their aspirations either through self employment or through new skills.
Significantly the number of rural poor who want to depend on the Government for either employment or housing is less than 50% while more than 50% of the rural poor want the freedom to chart their own destiny with some helping hand in the form of subsidized loans.
There in friends lies the fallacy of “Aam Admi” progressive politics practised by the Congress that is blind to this crying need of the Rural.
This trend is not isloated to Andhra, Offstumped had highlighted the same trend in Karnataka back in 2008 in the run up to the assembly elections there.
The tyranny of the politics of entitlement practised by the Progressives is such that not only is it repudiating the aspirations of the Rural Poor it is actually condemning them to a future of dependence on the Government for Wages while creating incentives for otherwise independent households to get classified as BPL to be at the receiving end of the Government’s dole under the guise of NREGA.
It is exactly this Progressive fallacy that must be exposed by the politics of Aspiration that shall be practised within the new Big Tent.
Freedom to the Individual within the protective shield of the White Umbrella shall come to mean liberty for each Indian to pursue his or her aspirations be it to be self employed or to acquire new skills while being unencumbered by the tyranny of the State
Only when the new Big Tent begins to shun agitational politics stuck on greivances to embrace Aspirational Politics that create opportunities will the Shveta Chhatra shall come to symbolize
#1 An Ownership Society
#2 A Culture of Responsibility
#3 The Spirit of Enterprise
More on that and Freedom to the Community in the next post.
Filed under: DesiPundit, Shveta Chhatra, jeetega-bharat
I really do think that offstumpers can do some thing about this. The steps below can be easily implemented by people familiar with AP to investigate the “spirit of enterprise” shown by the people.
1.) Google for NREGA AP. (posting links seems to put my comment under moderation)
2.) The data is all there. Who did what work in what village and how much they were paid. You can drill down to district level, mandal level, village level and down to the household and finally down to the individual worker.
I have done this with a village I am familiar with, I see women from landowning families listed on the muster rolls for work done breaking stones. They are not BPL families.
There are work orders where most of the workers happen to have the same family name.
The first job id cards were issued exclusively to one family.
The biggest work orders in terms of expenditure always seem to include workers with a certain family name.
But it looks like most of the village is on the muster rolls. Are they aware they are on the muster rolls, has everyone in the village come to some understanding how they are going to divide the spoils.
This is nothing but devolution of corruption.
The total amount spent in AP on NREGA as of 5/26/09 is 559,599 lakhs.
@ Dubash Can you please put the link in the next post ?
I always felt that schemes like NREGA were not really beneficial to the people because it did not do anything to enhance the skills and also provide an outlet if they would like to be entrepreneurs.Instead i feel in reality many people take the dole without doing any work ( I know it for a fact because my maid in Chennai goes every month to collect the dole, else she works in our place ). In my opinion it is nothing but a form of populist measure or a bribe or daylight robbery just like DMK ( it seems ) gives money for votes during elections, but this is actually from the tresury . I prefer the scheme Modi has undertaken for the diamond workers where the workers get a stipend of some amount for 3 months for enhancing their skills after which they can consider self employment as an option.
offtopic but I agree with most of the points made in the article. http://www.indianexpress.com/news/can-the-bjp-change/465822/0
However to change from the name Hindutva to Indic seems quite pseudo but only then maybe the non BJP supporters may be drawn into it.
Yossarin,
Why arent these posts getting posted on INI? These posts are certainly not about BJP! We can carry on discussion here. Please consider posting these Svetha Chattra posts on INI. INI should become a repository of such new ideas. It would be useful for future references and discussions too.
Vivek – INI is being revamped more details will follow next week. This site will be the permanent repository for future reference.
Good start.
But you can also spell out how this aspirational politics could be ushered in using specific terms.
1. Micro credit is the keyterm. Aspirational politics must involve steps to make credit easily available to farmers, students and entrepreneurs. Home loans, Car loans, credit cards must be discouraged. [did anyone watch Muhammad Yunus on 'Realtime with Bill Maher', last week?]
Another major problem involves Money sharks. Govts often treat this as a law and order problem instead of a banking problem. A poor man who pays 60% interest rate on his credit will have all aspirations sucked out of him. [more here: http://tinyurl.com/cjbvvh
Middle class should not be allowed to screw the poor and the entrepreneurs with nonsensical 6-10 percent interest rates. Bring the PSU lending rate down to about 1-2 percent.
2. Strengthen the co-operating movement. Poultry, Dairy, horticulture, Khadi movements being some of the target industries. Perhaps this is part of the ‘Freedom to the community’.
3. Give the rural student a chance against the urban pampered kids. Either introduce rural reservation (undesirable) or abolish entrance exams. Does a rural kid have any chance in hell of competing with urban coaching class produce? Use GPAs for admission to IITs/NITs/State Univs.
4. Encourage young rural Indians to radically change their view of the world. Introduce short service commissions even at the jawan level. And not just in the armed forces but also in the police and the paramilitary forces. A 18-21 year old kid who spends 3-4 years in the forces will come back with helluva lot more confidence.
NREGA:
The problem with NREGA, other than being inefficient and prone to corruption, is that it further moves towards centralization rather than de-centralization. Work like de-silting lakes, building check dams, repairing village roads have always been done by the state governments or the local bodies. Now that they all been clubbed, the size of the moolah and the hands that touch the moolah have increased considerably. The classic case of a socialist regime controlling more and more things on the road to Serfdom.
Dear Yoss,
It was interesting to read the short commentary.
I am really amazed to see the sudden change in you after the elections. I was particulary surprised to read the comment:-”Hypocrites who don Saffron have tainted it with Political Violence the moral cleansing must begin by purging them from the new Big Tent.”
These so called hypocrites existed even before the elections and you never found any reason for condemning them. What has suddenly changed after elections that you appear in garbs of Rajdeep, Burkha and Vir.
While any violence is unwanted in civil society, we must also be able to be fair before we jump to any conclusions. When the whole establishment is heavily biased against the Saffronites, I thought this was a forum which always encourgaed and presented a balanced view. I hope it remains the same and not become another NDTV,CNN-IBN.
Shirang,
>> These so called hypocrites existed even before the elections and you never found any reason for condemning them. What has suddenly changed after elections that you appear in garbs of Rajdeep, Burkha and Vir.
there is this small matter of BJP suffering its worst defeat in two decades. and the real fear that BJP taken over by Hindu fundamentalists may never come back to power again.
Balaji,
Firstly I do not agree with the word Hindu Fundamentalist. The deeds of some of the members of Parivar are just reactionary in nature. Hindus are never known to start the clashes, but what do you expect when a reverred person like Lakshmanand is murdered in daylight and the whole secular establishment is silent about it? When we talk of rule of law, even the SC courts verdicts are overruled by the rulers and the media is silent about it because it does not want to hurt the sentiments of Muslims. Even today the so called hate speech of Varun reverbrerates in the media while no mention of other hate speeches by Lalu and Congi leaders.
Let us be objective in our anlysis.
Another aspect of aspirational politics is Education. Even poorest of poor is willing to spend their fortune on their children education. Private institution are going out of reach of even so called middle class. Govt also spends huge amount on the primary education but no one trust these schools. In education funding is not the issue only a restructuring of spending is required. Either it can be education coupons or even govt to handover its schools to private management on lease with certain conditions.
Yoss,
I second shrirang’s statements. When the state starts taking sides like in Kandhamal. Why would you expect hindu samaj not to retaliate. Hindus are not yet dead morally to not react. The big tent concept is an innate concept, look where it has got us. We let the camel into the tent and the camel is kicking us out.
Increasingly the feeling is Government, the media and even the courts are playing the pseudo secular game. In this case, hindus will have no choice but to come to the streets. Violence in any form is condemnable, but violence in self defence is perfectly justified.
Venkatesh,
The violence in kandhamal or in Godra is retaliatory and not of self defence. The retaliatory violence resulted in nothing to Hindu cause.
Aru,
At least it shows the enemy hindus can retaliate and violence wont go unchalleged. i think it is a useful message to send.
@trupti
http://nrega.ap.gov.in/Nregs/Home_eng.jsp
Guys,
In times of crisis, it is important to stick together. If we dont that, we suffer.
There is widespred Hindu-bashing in many aspects. Perhaps, that is why there is a need for course correction.
@Venkatesh,
Your statement ‘violence in self defence is perfectly justified’. Will you call it self-defence to go and burn a house or a church which has women and childern in it, just because your house got burnt? .I confused on this answer.
The point is that, there is a media war against Hindu practices. It is important to provide a measured response, which, is not construed as fundamentalist.
Some of the so-called Moderate Hindus have this in mind when they vote for congress.
Sorry for an OT response.
Umesh,
Let me ask you a counter question? How would you feel if a 85 year old swami gets shot by an AK 47.
Innocent people should not be harmed in any case. I dont think any cause is worth the death of innocent people. Symbols of hatred are fair target.
As the supreme court appeal shows the claims of death are wildly exaggerated in any case.
What I am trying to say is that hindus are being persecuted in their own country and the pressure is released in not so rational ways. So if nothing is done about the cause, how can you just blame the effect!!
To look at the kandhamal incident in isolation of the fact that an old swami was shot. To look at the post godhra riots and not at the godhra incident is churlish.
The reactions are understandable but it does not make the reaction correct.
I frankly dont know what the Dharmik response is but am churning to find
Aru,
Sometimes the retaliatory violence acts as a deterrent.A violence free world is an ideal situation but then you can’t keep preaching the principle of non-violence to one community while ignoring the provocations by the other.
While Hindus abhor violence any time, they should not be taken for granted all the time. The Hindus would not even encourage such hoodlums if our system and establishment were efficient and more importantly fair enough to provide redressal to their grievances.
While the whole media and NGOs raise hue and cry about Gujarat vicitms, nobody bothers to write a single line about Kashmiri Hindus. The worst part is that these media and NGOs do not raise these issues because they have any genuine concern about the muslims but becuase they can mint money from these stories. Raising the issue of Kashmiri Hindus would not fetch them a single penny while writing gory stories about muslim persecution would bring them dollars and Euros.
This is where, I feel, this forum would make the difference.
Rural development,
I have the following take on this. Today, anybody who is working does one of the following.
a) Salaried
b) Self-employed
The issue with Indian agriculture, is that, they don’t know where they stand in the above classification.
Govt policies of neglect since, last two centuries, have created conditions, unfavourable for business. This basically makes the farmer go for populist benefits. ex. free water, free electricity, loan waivers etc.
The cycle is vicious since, this does not promote sustainable investment. Every year the long wait starts for the Govt. dole. People actually welcome floods since, that is a time to get extra money, through compensation.
The states which beat this trend were ones which made agriculture business oriented. Look at Punjab. The green revolution started there and it still continues there.
What would a rightist Govt. do? Promote facilities to sell produce closerto farmers. Provide decent opportunities to get a best price. This is where organised retail comes in.
@Venkatesh,
Most people in this forum know, I’m from Orissa. The case of swami laxmananda saraswati cannot be unknown to me. My father actually knew him. The issue is emotional to me personally too.
BUt, what was the opposite sides response? I see that, the other side had their media response in place. They were waiting for a flare-up. The killing was just an excuse.
Why are we guys so stupid in our responses? We could’ve turned the tables on the Media war completely if we would’ve kept quiet for some time. The focus could’ve gone into the investigation. Chances are bright that some local christian leaders would’ve been caught.
One might also add, that, you should take a lesson on Media management from the Nun-rape case. Even today, things are not clear on that. But, the way, the Media management was done of that incident should teach us a few things. Orissa was defamed because of that incident. That hurts a lot to people like me.
Instead of venting anger let us all form coherent startegies. That would make more sense.
The fact today is that we live in a Media dominated world. We have to learn to fight it using their tools.
Guys,
Let me provide you some positive news from Orissa front.Orissa is known as a place for hunger and poverty.
Let me provide some data:
a) Orissa had the 5th largest procurement of rice in the country.
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/blnus/08211862.htm
b) Orissa is the second largest producer of vegetables in the country.
http://www.ipicolorissa.com/agriculture.html
P.S: Just being regionally chauvinist
. This could be one of the reasons why Naveen patnaik came back.
In continuation with my last post, I would also like to add:- It is not that the minorities get quick redressal of their greivances but the large hue and cry in the media and in other so called intellectual spheres about their problems ensures that the focus remains on them. This exactly leads to dissatisfaction and dissent among the majority regarding the rule of law.
It is really hypocritical of the media and intellectuals to shed tears about the voting rights of Kandhamal refugees and at the same hail the J&K elections as victory of democracy when you have more Kashmiri Hindus in refugee camps for than two decades without any voting rights.
Umesh,
Farmer markets is one such approach. You have this practice across europe i think.
we had such an initiative started in TN but fizzed out.
The govt should provide best facilities, and provide many options for farmers, which they can choose to get the best price and be out of control of ill thinking people.
Instead of crores in waivers, local storage facilities for different type of food would have been great. Encouraging the formation of cooperatives for processing esp for small farmers, that are out of govt and big men control(cant go the maha sugar way) are all measures.(one such case: tender cocunut processing of pollachi variety added huge value to it, that many participated in it), providing technical knowledge help or training. These are just some measures we think of off hand.
I think Aspirational politics in farming is very important to revive the sector and the foodsecurity of the country.
Aspirational politics in education is also important as Balaji points. That is the first stage of aspiration. The teacher selection cannot be on first come first basis but on true quality basis as this is one aree that defines the next generation. To ensure good quality in rural areas and discourage postings in city, the perks and salaries of teachers in rural area must be very high compared o those in urban areas. I have personally gone to many rural schools and witnessed the absolute thrash these teachers throw out even in a facility with good infra, and excellent enthusiastic attendeance. Many here dont have access or means to private teaching help to ge over the thrash that may thrown at them esp when parent back home may be uneducated unlike in urban areas.
Passing laws on child labour is fine, but as part of aspirational politics, instead of dole outs, the govt must first target infra in these schools and treat the enthusiastic students properly.
We all saw the state of the booth that pm voted in assam which ibn made a issue of. If a school in city doesnt get spruced up even when pm visits, then imagine the state of rural schools.
Farmer markets were once backbone of yesteryear india, that ensured middle men did not crush their dreams.
We have seen many cases were produce beyond expectation resulted in losses. this is true in tomato mostly.
A software system handled by some agriculture dept, that directs excess produce in one area to an area where prices are high due to shortage, would help them stem losses. This can be implemented in the state followed by at pan states connectivity.
But progressives only think of dole outs.
yossarin can you elaborate on this in another post other than the Big tent series ?
”Hypocrites who don Saffron have tainted it with Political Violence the moral cleansing must begin by purging them from the new Big Tent.”
Adding to above, what about non-hypocrites donning green and white who believe violence is legit way to domination of their superior Gods? Do we exclude them or include them in the name of Secular-tentism ?
Umesh,
I would have been happiest person if, as you say, some local christian leaders would have been caught in the Lakshmanand case. But history suggests otherwise. What has happened to so many murders of RSS activists by Left wing fanatics in Kerala? Is there a single conviction so far? Not any I know. Forget RSS workers, what is happening to Afzal Guru? Even after India’s supreme judicial body convicted him for attack in parliament, the rulers and media still see him as a victim. Abdul Madani accused in bomb blasts in Advaniji’s rally shares platform with the rulers of Kerala. How then, would a Hindu beleive in the rule of law and system?
Shrirang – Go back and read all my earlier posts before the elections. I have been unequivocal in my criticism
you just didnt pay attention. Yes there is a difference before elections and now and it is a single minded focus to get all of you to focus on what I have been saying for 3 years now but was somehow lost in the rest of the topics.
More later keep it going.
@Shrirang,
You did not get my point. Talking abt lakshmananda Saraswati, I said, that, investigation suffered due to the riots. Since, Police was busy maintaining law and Order in the district, they could not carry further investigations.
The riots damaged BJP’s credibility. SO Naveen Patnaik thought abt changing hands. He did not want to be Known as a person with International infamy.
BJP was in power in Orissa. They could’ve directed the investigation to a logical conclusion. If a Congress link would’ve been proven, Congress would’ve been wiped out. The BJP leadership was just plain stupid in Orissa. This was a question of brains. They had already seen a Media reaction 6 months back due to the earliar riot. They should’ve been forewarned.
What the BJP thought was that, they would recover lost ground due to Panchayat losses. They thought of Polarising the state.
Word on the street is that, Praveen Togadia proposed a spell of polarisation in the state to Naveen Patnaik, who, plainly refused.
Bottomline: If the riots would’ve been stopped, then, Congress would’ve been in trouble. Now, we are being blamed with all kinds of names as being agressors.
SK – Only those who accept the White Umbrella are in everyone else is out. On the othe comment on a separate post, coming soon. You can also read my archives on Bal Thackeray and Raj Thackeray I have said the same thing, nothing new.
For SK and Shrirang’s benefit
http://offstumped.wordpress.com/2008/10/06/tarun-vijay-speaks-up/
http://offstumped.wordpress.com/2008/06/18/nip-it-in-the-bud/
http://offstumped.wordpress.com/2008/02/24/sullying-chattrapati-shivajis-legacy/
http://offstumped.wordpress.com/2008/02/04/thackerays-thackeray/
http://offstumped.wordpress.com/2008/01/07/flat-world-hindutva-uphold-the-rule-of-law-as-dharma/
Folks I want to keep the debate on this thread focused on the topic at hand. I hope above links clarify the consistency of what I have been saying. If necessary I shall cover this again in a separate post.
yossarin!!! you assume me to be a sickular?
i was more concerned about bukhari and cheenath
They will pay too. Why should that change in the new Big Tent ?
Yossarin,
I wonder if you have read the hindu’s suplement “How India Voted”. They say regional parties still got 29.2 percent vote (it was 29.3% last time). Regional parties are not yet dead they say. I know this is off topic but I was just wondering what your views are!
shrirang,
Today you justify retaliatory violence as deterrent. If it is started by VHP then you may end up justifying as preventive one. Violence under any circumstance is not justifiable. More so when you are in power. Either it amounts to support to the violence or ineffective in containing the violence.
Getting Justice in time without much money is another aspirational politics.
Vivek – I dont believe regional parties are dead. It is their ability to blackmail the national government that is dead and it may not come back soon if the Congress manages to sustain its heartland revival.
Well said Aru. Thanks
and talking of Bal and Raj Thackeray, I’m hoping more people will put pressure on BJP leadership to fight the Maharashtra Assembly elections alone. there is no guarantee BJP-Sena will win. On the contrary Congress is favorite to return with a bigger mandate. Why go with Sena(s) and waste an opportunity to establish ourselves in the second largest voting state in the country?
http://www.petitiononline.com/mh09elec/
Balaji,
You are underestimating Shiv Sena’s strenght in rural Maharashtra. Despite the fact that MNS spoilt Yuti’s chances in Mumbai,Shiv sena was able to get 11 seats this time. There is still tremendous respect for Balasaheb in rural youth because of Sena’s work and more importantly its inclusive Hindutva. Shiv Sena remains the only party which has no place for casteism in its politics a fact which was recently seconded by Nitin Gadkari.
If at all BJP wants to go alone , Maharashtra is certainly not the right place to start with.
shrirang,
for how long will you guys (sangh, sena, hindutva crowd) continue to blackmail us (BJP)? we are sick and tired of this. if u think Sena is great, please join it. just leave us alone.
Yossarin,
A question on attaining new skills. For the people to be ready for a switch in occupation at any point of time, they need to be trained in the basic skills from the very start of education. Lets say, there is a farmer in BPL who wnats to shun farming and becomes, lets say a TV mechanic. Without the required technical knowledge even if we say he had higher secondary education, it would almost be difficult for him.
In such a situation would it be state’s responsibility to train him in the required field? On what basis should it be determined if state could help any one change profession? Moreover, if every one in one field chooses to move to a different profession for lucrative offers, would it be healthy? Would the state be able to handle the shift of focus of professionals? Should the state provide incentives to those who continue to be in some field though the profession is not as lucrative? If the state does that, then isnt it a violation of Appeasement to none principle?
A good live example for this case of software pros vs academia. State offers very minimal to encaurage people to remain in research in academia while the industry has lot of incentives to offer to graduates. If state appreciates and provides incentives to researchers would/should that be regarded as entitlement?
Balaji,
You betray a sense of frustration. I do not understand the divide between you and we. I can understand if you put sena on the other side but when you bracket RSS and Hinudtva on the other side, I am surprised. What is BJP without RSS and its Hindutva?
Please learn to evaluate your strenghts and weaknesses. What does Maharashtra BJP have to fight on its own? It has no leader who can stand up and take responsibility. Build your organisation base first and then talk of fighting on your own.
go on. continue to blackmail us. there was a time when you guys threatened to not work for us and we believed you. we let our entire organization at your mercy and see where this has gotten us?
and you guys have managed to piss off every mass/suave leader BJP has produced. Vajpayee, Advani, Modi, Jaitley, Vasundhara. this despite the sangh stooges (Rajnath, Kalyan, Uma, Katiyar) having no support among the party workers. its only a matter of time, before BJP decides “enough is enough” and shows you guys the door.
and when we decide, it’ll be more than just severance. you guys may as well pay for it thru jail terms. remember the revenge of a politician can be too much for an uneducated and barely literate pracharak to handle.
Shrirang, Balaji – time out. Both have made valid points something for BJP to sort out in Maharashtra – its lack of inspirational leadership and its excessive dependence on sangh. Let us keep the thread on track. Thanks.
Vivek – You ask valid questions will address them in the next post.
Balaji,
I pity your state of mind. I do not want to get into slanging match with you. You show your ignorance when you want to separate Vajpayee, Advani, Modi and jaitley from RSS (you may be right about Vasundhara). These poeple rose to prominence through the Sangh. I also do not know how to react when you call Kalyan and Uma having no support among party workers. Their parting with BJP notwithstanding, they were true mass leaders and represented an inclusive Hindutva face of BJP.
About the pracharaks being uneducated and barely literate, you really need to get your head examined. May god bless you.
Yoss,
Sorry for harsh posts. I belong to neither RSS nor BJP but I can not stand Balaji’s langauage about RSS and Parivar. I have seen people working in Parivar very closely. There can be differences about their way of working but there can be no differences about their integrity and selflessness. You have the best of talent working in remote areas through the Sangh network. Once agin apologies for going offtopic and using harsh words.
Yoss,
I think comments are purged from the site when they 100. If one visits offstumped after a few days, conversations in a popular thread are partially displayed, thanks to the 100 comments rule.
Good start to white tent.
Ajay – They are not purged, they are only paginated, 100 at a time so it manages the load. At the bottom of the post right above the submit comments box you will see a “Older Comments” hyperlink. Click on it to see the previous 100 comments.
I hope the reference to “white tent” was not tongue in cheek
Balaji – Shrirang makes a fair point. It is one thing to debate the relationship between Sangh and BJP which btw pls do on lkadvani.in and friendsofbjp.org, it is quite another to slander and stereotype.
well, I don’t know. thousands of BJP workers are being held hostage by these Sangh guys. BJP workers, for no fault of theirs, silently suffer ridicule and humiliation at the hands of the media and the liberals. and BJP has been trying to distance itself from the Sangh. but everytime we try, they commit a bigger atrocity on minorities, tarnish our image in the media and put us in a spot. who knows it’ll be left to Modi to show them the door.
may be BJP-Sangh relationship is like the Eelam-LTTE relationship. while I wud very much welcome the fate of LTTE to befall the Sangh, I hope they don’t permanently damage the right wing cause in the country.
So what now? Are you and balaji suggesting that the BJP should sever ties with RSS? Refrain from pursuing the Hindutva ideology?
Ok, done.
What next?
What then should be its response to say, the following provocations?
1) Destruction of Rama Setu?
2) Reservations for minorities solely on the basis of religion?
3) Release of Afzal Guru?
4) Harrassment of Malegaon blast suspects?
5) Increased support to missionaries for their conversion efforts?
etc etc?
Ravindra – Again at the point of sounding redundant, rss-bjp reln discussion is best done on lkadvani.in and friendsofbjp.org to get the attention it must.
To clarify the questions you ask for your benefit and everyone else:
1. I am not suggesting anything on rss/bjp relationship beyond the fact that there must be transparency to all stakeholders and the bjp has a structured participative process to make all decisions, ballots will be the way to go.
2. On Hindutva as I have stated in the first Shvet Chhatra post, its time Hindutva was cleansed of political taint and saffron returned to its sacred place in the realm of faith with no political role.
3. On the issues you have raised from Rama Sethu to afzal guru all of them will be addressed in the subsequent posts so please be patient.
The more I read Yossarin’s posts on the Shveta Chhatra, it looks increasingly unlikely that the current BJP can articulate this with any impact, even internally, leave alone to the external world.I mean, compared to the big white tent, Hindutva is much more straight forward, and yet, the BJP has succeeded in confusing every one what Hindutva really means
I am not sure who Yoss is expecting to adopt this approach.Other than the BJP, that is.
Ultimately, unless a major political party completely buys into these concepts and develops an internal consensus about the specifics, this entire intellectual exercise could remain confined to this forum.
Yoss himself says he has been blogging about these concepts for the last 2-3 years, and yet, even on this forum, it needed BJP’s worst defeat for people to even pay attention.
Sorry, I don’t want to rain on any one’s parade here.Just expresing my reasonable cynicism.
And all those who argue for BJP to divorce itself from Hindutva, are you guys wishing to finish off the BJP as a political force or what?
Yes, the BJP needs to do a better job of media management, it needs to regain its earlier image of a party with a difference, it also needs internal democracy etc etc But why are all these things mutually exclusive with Hindutva/Cultural Nationalism ?
Offstumped,
I hope in the next posts you will also address how a saffron that goes back to the realm of faith hold its own against a militant islam and church, that are basically political ideologies and use every political trick in the book.
Mahabharata is essentially a political story and the a pillar of Hindu dharma. I am not sure how you plan to make a distinction between hindu dharma and politics. Before you say Dharma is not religion, let me also say that it is a code that essentially hindus follow and hence a part of our religion. If the other religions followed the same code, Ghazni would never have conquered India!!!!
Kumar – thanks for the reality check. This is exactly why I have said this is a process and there will be no instant gratification
My job is to say what needs to be said.
It is for everyone here to take it for what it is worth and to advocate it where it makes sense for it to have the desired impact.
Narendra Modi in Gujarat has made a beginning by practising it without quite articulating it in black and white. He or others need to do so and this articulation hopefully will come handy.
The new Big Tent and the White Umbrella awaits its detached Moral Leader.
Continuing my sceptical POV:
OK..the new big tent, at a simplistic level, is another word for implementing the Constitution in its letter and spirit.If that is not the case, the big tent should start off by defining what is wrong with the current constitution, and how it needs to be revised.
Most parties would say they are committed to Indian Constitution and that they have never subverted the Constitution in any way.If we argue otherwise, it will actually be a defamation.
Kumar,
As you say they have to first adopt internally before taking it out to people. And from swapan da blog comments, looks like internal gaame has already began again between pres and gen sec. hopeless.
and efforts being made to marginalise modi by allowing sidelined defeated rebels to now up ante against him, sanjay joshi visiting gujarat and spending a week meeting bjp workers. So no hope. my target as on date is 75 in 2014.
While we all were not impressed by arun nehre, towards the second round, he started saying that people are voting for stability and indirectly implied upa will be back. now he says congress surge will continue.
looks like bjp wants to make his predictions come true for a second time.
Yoss,
Thanks for indulging my cynicism.
NaMo could be the detached moral leader.Problem is, outside this forum, no one sees him that way.According to many, NaMo is neither detached, nor moral.
So, for all his good qualities, I think NaMo’s destiny is probably to lay the groundwork.We need a different detached moral leader.JP could be one, but I doubt if he has the stamina.
Kumar,
If not for us, will you listen to BJP leaders?
“There should be no doubt in our minds that we have to overcome our shortcomings and present a modern face” – Arun Jaitley.
“Why give all the credit to Rahul Gandhi? Varun Gandhi has also served the party of his grandmother well!”
“We couldn’t see that Uttar Pradesh was beginning to reject politics based only on caste and communal lines. We have fought four elections on caste and religion. Now the world is changing. If we do not reinvent ourselves, we will not survive as a national party.” – Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi.
“We have to accept that the voter now wants us to rise above caste and religion. We cannot stoke hatred. We have to strongly condemn something like Mangalore.”- Siddharth Nath Singh.
“I accept that Varun’s speech, the Mangalore pub incident and the Kandhamal violence have not helped us.”-Kharbela Swain.
“In Bihar, we have done well because we keep all divisive issues out of the agenda. Let me put it on the record that the decision not to invite Narendra Modi to Bihar was a strategic decision taken by the BJP and not dictated by Nitish Kumar.” – Sushil Kumar Modi.
“The great tragedy for the BJP was that issues that were not on the agenda became more important.” – Shah Nawaz Hussein.
All this from an Outlook article. Ofcourse the above BJP leaders might deny making such statements. But as Vinod Mehta recently quoted some journalist Claud Cockburn:
“Never believe anything until it is officially denied.”
PC promises National ID card to all by 2011. Hope he stays true to his word, and more importantly, issue IDs only to Indian citizens,
http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/National-ID-cards-to-be-issued-to-all-citizens-by-2011-PC/466267/
Kumar,
yes. The White Tent may well lie outside the BJP! Loksatta and even freedomteam.in seem promising. If BJP can’t throw the Sangh guys out, I suspect media and middle class shall leave the BJP to die and look for credible faces outside.
Balaji,
All I can say is that Shanawaz Hussain is spot on.
The rest (based on the quotes you have posted) seem to be intent on making NR’s prediction true (75 in 2014).
It is a pity that Hindutva is now seen as a divisive ideology by even the BJP leaders.If BJP has done such a bad job with Hindutva, I shudder to think what they would do with a complex concept like the Shveta Chhatra.And hence the cynicism.
RSS should actually think of infiltrating the Congress and working covertly to push Congress to centre-right.Rahul wouldn’t know the difference between right and left anyway
Well, I don’t want to get into fistfights again but its suffice to say that only definition available for Hindutva is one given by Savarkar. Even RSS under Guruji refused to accept that Hindutva.
And I agree ‘Shveta Chhatra’ will fly over the heads of most BJP supporters let alone voters. But we can talk simple economics, no?
How difficult is it to explain center right economics to voters? 4% interest rate for farmers, Golden Quadrangular project, lets throw open railways to private players just like we did in airlines and telecom.
Off Topic.
But may be this is a sign of times to come.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Cities/Bridegroom-leaves-over-rituals-dispute/articleshow/4580770.cms
Guys – you are confusing ideology with electoral issues. You are also giving little credit to the commonsense of the “aam admi”.
The ideology is the moral benchmark to guide policies and provide the rationale for choices to be made.
It will be part abstract and part intellectual. Its essence has to be distilled through live examples and anecdotes.
The Jyotigram versus Nandigram example was a good one. We need more of those.
As far as the wisdom of the “aam admi” goes they understand quite well what it meands to be independent and empowered as opposed to being at the mercy of others.
If they have voted in favor of dependence it is becoz nobody has made a credible case to them that they can deliver.
In that respect Gujarat 2007 stands out as the only election in India in recent memory where populism was not on the ballot. The lessons from there need to be learnt, adapted to other States and applied with appropriate medium, message and messenger.
Its not for me to solve the medium, message, messenger problem for every future election.
My job ends with articulating the ideological foundations in a coherent manner and putting a template out there for what I think is a good process that improves the odds of finding the right medium, messenger and message.
Its for others to take it from there on.
Balaji,
With due respects to your door-to-door campaigns for BJP in the just concluded elections, you are the best example of BJP’s colossal failure in communicating the essence of Hindutva (suggested reading:’flat world Hindutva’ by Yossarin)to its frontline party workers and volunteers.Please don’t tell me that Savarkar has perpetual rights for defining Hindutva.There are many of us who admire Savarkar and use his ’spirit of thinking’ and apply it to modern times.
Your admirable focus on economic right policies, is also one of the ways in which Hindutva as an ideological construct is expressing itself.
There is no need to dilute the need to preserve, enhance and leverage our Hindu heritage, in order to implement economic right policies.Let economics be the science and Hindutva be the ethical framework for it.Both are not mutually exclusive.
And to argue that, for some ‘God-Knows-whether-it-will-happen-or-not’ electoral gain, BJP should give up on its umbilical cord with cultural nationalism is to betray your true ideological moorings.As Yoss has so eloquently pointed out, Gujarat is the example that contradicts your stated position so far.
Yoss,
Yes sir.Agree with every word you said @9.33 PM IST.
Kumar,
In my campaign I never uttered words like Hindu, Hindutva etc. Infact even people in our team knew that I do not agree with the BJP/Sangh on any of the social issues. There is no chance in hell of me campaigning on Hindutva.
To set the record straight, I do not know to what extent my team comprising educated young professionals believes in Hindutva.
We mostly spoke about Golden quadrangular project, ladli lakshmi yojana, 4% farm loan, income tax exemption, terrorism, old-age pension scheme etc.
Of the four places we campaigned in Karnataka, BJP won three!
Chitradurga – Janardhana Swamy, IISc Alum and 10 years SunMicrosystems in Bay Area. Hardly a Sangh guy. BJP has won Chitradurga for the first time ever with 1.3 Lakh margin!
B’lore Central – P C Mohan. hardly a sangh guy. He owns a sanitary products business and we campaigned about his performance as an MLA.
B’lore North – Chandregowda. The guy who recently came from Congress. No question of Hindutva here.
and
Mysore – Vijayashankar – Sangh guy. Had done nothing in the last five years as MP. Even we were embarrassed about campaigning for him. But somehow we felt he will scrape through. He has lost to a Congress guy Viswanath who has equally dubious credentials.
Infact, I would stick my neck out and claim that except for Mangalore and perhaps Prahlad Joshi’s win, Sangh was an insignificant player in BJP’s 19 seat victory. Remember Yeddyurappa was even willing to join JDS few years ago. I fully expect him to keep Sangh in the doghouse in Karnataka.
ps: And as for my Hindu credentials, they are very well intact. Just that they are in the philosophical realm and not mythological or political. I believe in Advaita, Jainism and Epicurianism.
Balaji,
Thanks for the info, but my statement still stands.You are a BJP member/volunteer, and you still don’t understand Hindutva, and you run down the RSS all the time.I see it as the BJP’s failure to convey the message properly to its own rank and file.
Karnataka – AFAIK, except for Mangalore and surroundings, in the rest of the State, BJP is no different from Congress.It is a rainbow coalition of narrow interests.Today, the coalition is bigger than those of Cong and JDS.Tomorrow, it could be different.BJP’s strength in Karnataka does not have an ideological anchor yet, the way it has in Gujarat.
Kumar,
Well, I understand Savarkar’s Hindutva. And I understand BJP’s Integral Humanism. Its infact news to me that BJP has a separate definition for Hindutva except the inanities uttered by Modi in his interview to Suhasini on IBN. So you are perhaps right!
Gujarat, I think is a case of Savarkar’s Hindutva than the imaginary one I supposedly don’t understand. Fascism, however abused is very popular among the peoples of the world. That is why Modi keeps harping on Gujarati Asmita. Classic Fascism.
However, I see Modi as either a reformed man or a glorious actor, who is pursuing development economics now. I will campaign for him, no doubt. But I feel he will be better of in the party than as our public face.
Yes, Karnataka politics is now a rainbow coalition, alright. I wud like it to become like Tamilnadu’s ruthless “whats in it for me” politics. That way whoever satisfies the voters individually (whether bribing for vote or giving freebies or performing as a MP/MLA/Minister or pissing the voters less) will win.
Balaji saar,
One last attempt: Development economics and Hindutva are not mutually exclusive.We need development on an ethical foundation.And culture is generally the vehicle for ethics.
If you want to use words and markers from western civilisation to describe this ethical framework, I am fine.But I would expect a nationalist party like BJP to tap our Hindu heritage.Some aspects of that would be cultural and symbolic.Not every one is an advaitin like you.The aam aadmi is generally not a nirguna theist.
After this small debate, I now understand Yossarin’s statement about the need to remove the stain on saffron better
And a good definition of Fascism is this:
“A form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation or victimhood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion.”
I have serious difficulties in understanding how the above definition doesn’t apply for Hindutva. Let me rephrase it in the Indian context.
“A form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with Hindu decline, humiliation or victimhood at the hands of Muslim and Christian rulers/evangelists and by compensatory cults of unity, energy and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants [Sangh], working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites [Upper castes/royals/rich], abandons democratic liberties [like justice, minority rights] and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing in Gujarat and Kandhamal and external expansion into places like Pakistan.”
Kumar,
why should we rephrase Hindutva into something which isn’t when a glorious ideology like Integral Humanism as proposed by Deendayalji is readily available? Development economics will be a necessary condition for Humanism, no?
Balaji,
Please reflect on what you’re saying. You’re getting very offensive here. Your view of Hindu society is associated with what half-truths you have seen in a certain set of conditions .
We all face problems of discrimination in every sphere of life. But, it is our ability to rise out of it , that, makes us different from Others.
Do you think a Hindi speaking guy like me does not suffer in Bangalore because he does not speak Kannada? It is very much on the face here.
This does not make me say things about x,y,z being fascist or all that. I suggest you need growing up.
Balaji,
I don’t need to read Savarkar or Deendayal or even have an opinion on them.These are all commonsense issues.
As a Bharatiya, I want two things: a good life in a peaceful society, and continuation of my culture.
Hindutva is the vehicle of choice for my civilisational journey.When I follow Hindutva, I am better than a secular person.Because I don’t just tolerate other religions, I syncretise with them because I believe that:Ekam Sat, Vipra Bahudha Vadhanti.
And you are calling this fascism?
Umesh,
I gave the wikipedia definition of Fascism and have explained how Hindutva fits it to the tee. Savarkar had no doubts whatsover that he was a Fascist. He never made any attempt to hide it. And he was the one who introduced Hindutva in his legendary 1923 ideological treatise “Hindutva: Who is a Hindu?”.
But where does the question of Hindu society come here. Even RSS refused to accept Hindutva as policy. Guruji Golwalkar would not touch Hindutva with a totem pole. Syama Prasad Mukherjee quit the Hindu Mahasabha citing Gandhi’s assassination. And Deenadayalji was going in a altogether different plane with his Integral Humanism. Where is the question of Hindu society condoning or legitimizing Savarkar’s Hindutva. Some fringe elements in today’s Sangh are attracted towards Fascism. Its the responsibility of RSS to expel them or for the BJP to disassociate from the Sangh.
As for being a non-Kannadiga here: Hindutva aka Fascism as practiced by Raj Thackeray types will want to beat you to pulp. And integral humanism as practiced by Deenadayal and Atalji would embrace you as a brother and appreciate the great linguistic diversity of this country. You choose.
Kumar,
Excellent. You just have to rephrase your quest like below:
“Dharma is the vehicle of choice for my civilisational journey. When I follow the Dharmic principles of the Hindu (Indian) religions, I am better than a secular person. Because I don’t just tolerate other religions, I syncretize with them because I believe that: Ekam Sat, Vipra Bahudha Vadhanti.”
Leave Hindutva, Fascism, Humanism and other treatises to those interested and continue in your journey.
why is it that we are doing everybit to get every thread locked.
well we and swapan da can only express our anguish, but finally it looks like the party badly want 75. We are all asking for a ballot, ut instead of atleast changing the leadership through consensus in important bodies of the party, here we have all efforts for back door politics.
Regarding pursuing a rightwing (call it centre-right if you want)policy Mr. Jaitley was asked in a rediff chat in 2007 after Gujarat elections the following question
Jaideep asked, Mr. Jaitley, Swapan Dasgupta recently described Mr. Modi as the only right-wing CM in India. If the BJP under Modi win in Gujarat would that give a boost to development based right-wing politics as against the decades old trend of patronage based left-wing policies across the country.
Arun Jaitley answers, Modi’s policies are strongly nationalistic, development oriented and governance centric. However, while pursuing developmental agenda, the issues of underprivileged must be flagged and responded through various social and poverty alleviation scheme.
Dont you think Mr. Jaitleys answer here suggests that the BJP wont have the nerves to oppose schemes such as NREGA etc. One cant be in favour of poverty alleviation schemes and then oppose NREGA kind of schemes. To me it suggests that no party (including the BJP) truely believe it is possible to pursue a non-patronage based agenda
KSJ – there is a fallacy in yours and jaitley’s argument.
Poverty Alleviation is a goal.
There could be many paths to it.
The argument here ought to be that nrega doesn’t alleviate poverty it preseves and perpetuates it by creating incentives to become classified as BPL.
I can not really say what the right path is…I am afraid the one that will win elections is pursuing extremely different agenda’s in West Bengal and Tamil Nadu than they would in Punjab or Gujarat…
I feel great fears about the future of this party, regardless of agenda…either the next 5 years of Congress hegemony will unite anti-Congress forces (A frustrated CBN, a potentially frustrated Jaya, and others), or BJP is doomed completely…
Can the agenda win? What was the Congress’ agenda? I am really confused about politics right now…and not at all confused, too…big dilemma folks…the Indian people do not care about their security…they do not care about border infiltration…by the Chinese or Bangladeshi’s…they want freebies and they want them now! So path one, stick to the agenda of what we know is right…path two, throw out money like there’s no tommorrow and win!
Except for Jharkhand, there is no bright spot coming up for us…Maharasthra is long-gone, Arunachal we won’t even question, Haryana there is no hope either way, and next year in Bihar once Nitish dumps them, they will get about a dozen seats…so plenty of time to introspect. The 2011 elections will be of little consequence too, so it won’t be until 2012 when they need to be ready…to be defeated in Punjab and if Koshiyari does not get want he wants, Uttarakhand as well…this is followed by a tally of 15-20 in UP as the leaders their fight themselves blue…
Janpar,
The only agenda that will win is identifying 543 decent, humble, honest, hard working women/men who are willing to contest elections. Preferably ofcourse from within the party but not necessarily!
Ideology, policy, alliances etc are all just force multipliers. Nothing can make a poor candidate win.
Yossarin,
I agree povery alleviation is a goal. What I meant to point out was that any govt sponsored scheme (I distinguish such schemes from a development based agenda for example infrastructure or education) is bound to be patronaged based and this is where I feel our political parties dont think its electorally viable to completely discard patronage based policies. I feel it is that reason that prevents even a Jaitley from unequivocally distance himself (or his party) from patronage based politics
But Balaji,
thats possible when all the 700 million electors vote, assuming that atleast 40 percent of them think about the honest,humble and decent candidates. This is generally not the case and when only 50 percent of the people turn up to vote, the opponent of the decent, humble, honest group of men and women would have to face the exact opposite goondas doing things at their will in polling centers. My father told me horror stories of booth capturing in some of his election duties in remote areas. It is ofcourse a dream but a distant one as of today!
Mr. Balaji is eloquent in deriding Hindutva of Savarkar variety and calling it Brahminical. Mr. Savarkar in his seminal work on Hindutva says that the Birth of Hindu Nation started with the Symbolic Unfurling of Shwetha Chatra under the Throne of Ayodhya by Rama and comes very near to the points articulated by offstumped. I give below his quotation:”At last the great mission which the Sindhus had undertaken of founding a nation and a country, found and reached its geographical limit when the valorous Prince of Ayodhya made a triumphant entry in Ceylon and actually brought the whole land from the Himalayas to the Seas under one sovereign sway. The day when the Horse of Victory returned to Ayodhya unchallenged and unchallengeable, the great white Umbrella of Sovereignty was unfurled over that Imperial throne of Ramchandra, the brave, Ramchandra the good, and a loving allegiance to him was sworn, not only by the Princes of Aryan blood but Hanuman, Sugriva, Bibhishana from the south-that day was the real birth-day of our Hindu people. It was truly our national day: for Aryans and Anaryans knitting themselves into a people were born as a nation. It summed up and politically crowned the efforts of all the generations that preceded it and it handed down a new and common mission, a common banner, a common cause which all the generations after it had consciously or unconsciously fought and died to defend.”
In fact Savarkar was the earliest social reformer who struggled for the abolition of untouchability. He fought untouchability wholeheartedly unlike the dravidian variety who blamed the dalit women wearing blouses for increase in prices of clothes.
Savarkar had many great things to his credit. Hindutva is one such. If some tom,dick and harry is able to find the difference in approach between Savarkar and Golwalkar that does not in any way make us fight a posthumous election to nominate our ideologue.
@sudaraman
I agree. sanatan dharma centric thoughts, ideologies, policies and actions alone can bear real fruits. All attempts to shamelessly, completely import western principles, concepts, jargon without bothering to understand or tailor them in local context will only lead to more confusion and disenchantment. I observe that, many words, ideas which the so-called progressives unscrupulously use (fascism is one famous one) and propagate are actually the products of this confusion and anxiety to use and fit the words they have recently learned.
Sundararaman,
If you like Savarkar, please follow him. Just don’t expect BJP to follow suit. Better still, revive the Hindu Mahasabha from which our founder broke off and formed BJS. BJP recognizes Savarkar as a patriot. Thats all. It doesn’t subscribe to his fascism.
Why can’t people just read Integral Humanism as proposed by the foremost BJP/BJS ideologue Deendayal Upadhyaya, is just beyond me.
http://www.bjp.org/content/view/444/396/
Deendayal doesn’t even use the word ‘Hindutva’ and ridicules ‘nationalism’. His emphasis is on ‘Dharma’.
Mr. Balaji, Have you studied Savarkar in toto? How do you say Savarkar’s view is opposed to the view of Golwalkar or Pandit Deendayal Upadyaayaaji. Please do not create posthumous factions of ideology in BJP. Please give your comment on Savarkar’s view on Shwetha Chatra. I think Savarkar’s View are nearer to Shwetha Chatra than anybody else.
Regarding your pet themes of Dalits vs. Brahminism etc., I find Savarkar’s views are nearer to yours than that of anybody else. Why this pathological hatred to Savarkar?
“I am confident that I shall see the eradication of untouchability before my own eyes. It is my sincere desire that after I die, my dead body should be lifted by the Dhend and the Dom together with the Brahmin and Bania and that they should together cremate me. Only then will my soul be satisfied.” This is what Savarkar has said. So much for now for the much reviled Hindutva of Savarkar.
Thanks Sundararaman. Tomorrow is the birth anniversary of this real visinary leader. We all need to go back to him if we wish to build a strong and vibrant nation.
Sundararaman,
Fascism does offer an equitable society albeit an undemocratic one. No doubt Savarkar envisaged a casteless Hindustan. He was like me an atheist too. But why do you think BJP should adopt Fascism as ideology?
Please read the life history or all the Sangh stalwarts and Savarkar. You’ll understand why Mukherjee and Golwalkar refused to toe the Savarkar line. Its just a difference of ideology. As I said in an earlier post, simply becos liberals use ‘Fascist’ as a swear word it doesn’t become one. Some conservatives like me do use ’socialist’ as a swear word. But I’m sure no socialist is rankled by it.
karnataka BJPseems to be chartering a completely different path compared to other bjp units.
Now subsidised tours to hindu pilgrimages withing karnataka for poor.
900 cr for temple renovation besides 110 cr for inra facilities and 180 cr plan in subramanya.
http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?Title=After+Ganga+Jal,+it%E2%80%99s+subsidised+pilgrimage&artid=8SVVa75yREc=&SectionID=Qz/kHVp9tEs=&MainSectionID=Qz/kHVp9tEs=&SEO=BJP&SectionName=UOaHCPTTmuP3XGzZRCAUTQ==
[...] be countered with an “aspirational message” that is colloquial and makes the case for Individual Economic Freedom and promotes the [...]
[...] be countered with an “aspirational message” that is colloquial and makes the case for Individual Economic Freedom and promotes the [...]