Sir, I rise to speak on the Bills As the tenure of the UPA Government comes to an end it has brought these Bills not out of any ideological conviction but because the 10 evil men who shook India on 26/11 have convinced every Indian that the battle against terrorism cannot be curtailed because of vote bank considerations.
Those who opposed a strong special law against terrorism have been conclusively proved wrong. Their logic was the following:-
That POTA was a law not against terrorism but against minorities. Normal laws are sufficient to deal with terrorism and no special laws are required.
A Special anti terror law is opposed to human rights.
A special anti terror law can be misused.
Despite POTA attacks took place on the Parliament and Akshardham and therefore an anti terror law is ineffective.
The ten evil terrorists who shook India on 26/11 have demolished the fundamental assumptions of every critique of a special law against terrorism. The reality now stares India in the face. Indians will no longer accept India as a soft State vulnerable to terror. All these objections have proved to be spurious.
Why an Ani-Terror law is needed
It is obvious that an anti terror law is not a substitute for stronger intelligence and security responses. You need a powerful intelligence mechanism which infiltrates into the enemy camp and brings you advance information of what the enemy is planning. The intelligence has to be coordinated and then effectively passed on to those who will take preventive measures. Your security responses have to be fast. Your commando reactions must send fear into the enemy mind. Obviously, an anti terror law is not a replacement of all these.
The principal battle against terrorism is not fought in law courts; it has to be first fought in the mind of a society. It has to be taken in the hearts of men and women which must then be reflected in the determination of the polity and the government. It has then to be reflected in the capacity of your intelligence agencies and your security responses.
The Indian Penal Code till date has not been able to eradicate criminal offences. Similarly, an anti terror law does not bring terrorism to an end. A terror law merely provides for proper investigation and punishment to those who indulge in the terrorist crimes. If you have an effective anti terror law your conviction rate is high and convictions are faster. It can only act as a deterrent against crime.
After wasting 95% of its electoral term in questioning the rationale behind a strong anti terror law,the UPA has now been compelled to at least reluctantly accept that what the BJP has been saying all these days was correct. But unfortunately politicians never accept that they were wrong and therefore even when you realize that you were wrong, your reluctant acceptance is an incomplete one. The newspaper reports indicate that the Home Minister tried hard for some more amendments to this law but his colleagues in the Cabinet allowed their vested vote bank interest to override India’s security interests.
Anatomy of Terrorist offences
Let us analyse three recent important cases of terrorist attacks in order to understand what anti terror law must contain.
(1) The Assasination of Shri Rajiv Gandhi
Shri Rajiv Gandhi was assassinated by a terrorist disguised as a human bomb. The assassin died on the spot. The investigation was intended to reach out to larger conspirators who encouraged and participated in the crime and provided logistical support. The trial was held under TADA. Obviously you could not find any eye-witnesses of the secret meetings of the conspirators. It was only confessions of the participants made to senior police officers under TADA which ultimately became the basis for conviction.
(2) The Parliament Attack case
The five terrorists who attacked Indian Parliament were killed on the spot. Investigation into the conspiracy reached out only to those who provided logistical support and participated in executing various steps in the conspiracy. POTA was in force and therefore the confessions made about the crime under POTA became the material evidence in convicting the alleged conspirators.
The Mumbai Attack on 26/11/2008
Nine out 10 terrorists were killed on the spot. One has been arrested. The investigation must now reach out to those who organized the terror attack, who trained the terrorists, the role of the ISI and other State agencies of Pakistan. The investigation must reach out to those provided the money, the weapons, the RDX, who made travel arrangements and who provided local and logistical support to these terrorists. It is obvious that there will be no eye witnesses or any direct evidence of the Karachi limb of the conspiracy. It is the confessions made by the arrested terrorist, Kasab, which will be material. Take all his confessions out, it may be difficult for the Indian police to prove the Karachi limb of the conspiracy.
What are the Essential features of an Anti-terror law
On basis of the above there are special features which an anti terrorist law must have. POTA was a composite anti terror law. The features of an anti terror law must include – the definition of a terrorist act, the extra territorial application of the law, a provision for deterrent punishment to those who commit terrorist crime, special provisions for those who incite or abate terror, who harbour terrorists, for acquiring and continuing membership of terrorist organizations, for confiscation of proceeds of terrorism, for non retention of profits of crime, for forefeiture of terrorists property and other assets acquired from terrorism and for threatening witnesses. The law must provide for declaration of terrorist organizations as unlawful, a special procedure for investigation and trial, longer remand periods to enable proper investigation, and setting up of special courts, the law must separately provide for presumption of certain acts and shifting the onus on accused, for confiscation of passport and travel documents of the accused and for setting up of Review Committees to ensure that there is no misuse of the law.
Where our law was lacking
The law has to provide for special bail provisions in substitution of the normal bail provisions under Criminal Procedure Code, to intercept telecom communication and using them as evidence and admissibility of confessions with certain safeguards. The UPA government has not been honest with the country in the last 4 years and 8 months. It is a victim of its own propaganda that POTA was anti minority community. It repealed the POTA and in the process it made India a victim of terrorism. Later, it kept indulging in cutting and pasting exercise. A large number of provisions mentioned above were bodily lifted and incorporated in the 2005 amendment to the Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act. However, the government misled the whole country for over four years and made our investigations and prosecutions vulnerable by deleing certain vital provisions. These provisions were the following :-
(a) Presumption as to certain acts
If a weapon is found in possession of a person, the onus of proving his innocence shifts upon the possessor of the weapon. Similarly, if fingerprints of a person are found on a weapon or a vehicle, the presumption of user is against the person. Presumptions are even allowed in the Indian Evidence Act. But the UPA did not wish to allow he prosecutors to avail presumptions against terrorism. This provision has now been brought in.
(b) Special provisions for bail of a terrorist
Special bail provisions which make the bail of a terrorist extremely difficult are present in most anti terror laws globally. In India, the special bail provisions have been provided in 12 different legislations. They were present in the TADA and POTA. They are currently present in the Organised Crime laws of Maharashtra, Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh. They are contained in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances Act (NDPS), SC and ST (Prevention of Atrocities) Act, 1989, Anti Hijacking Act, 1982, Prevention of Damage to Public Property Act, 1984, Prevention of Money Laundering Act,2002, Suppression of Unlawful Acts against Safety of Maritime Navigation, 2002; Suppression of Unlawful acts against Safety of Civil Aviation Act, 1982, Terrorist Affected Areas (Special Courts) Act, 1984; Wildlife (Protection) Act, 1972. Internationally, the bail provisions in U.K. Australia, U.S.A and Canada render the bail extremely difficult. Fortunately, the bail provisions are only now belatedly being strengthened.
(c) Confessions of a conspirator
The Supreme Court had laid down guidelines as to under what circumstances and with what safeguards the confessions of an accused could be admitted in evidence. The safeguards included –
• The confessions must be before a police officer of the rank of Superintendent of Police or above.
• It must be recorded with an audio or video device.
• Within 48 hours of the confession the accused must be produced before a judge/magistrate to examine the voluntariness of the confession.
• In case of any complaint by the accused the judge will get the accused medically examined.
It should always be open to the court to examine the voluntariness of the confessions. However, the nature and anatomy of a terrorist crime is such that the investigator will never be able to prove what happened in the closed door meetings and terrorist training camps through eye-witnesses. Even intercepts will be normally post crime. The conspirators who helped the assasins of late Shri Rajiv Gandhi and those who attacked Indian parliament were punished on the strength of confessions. Take the confessions out and more acquittals were likely. The Karachi limb of the conspiracy can never be proved but for the confessions made by Kasab being made admissible. These confession provisions have existed in TADA and POTA, the Orgainsed Crime laws of Maharashtra,Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh. These provisions exist in NDPS law, Submissions made to Customs officers,Enfforcement officers have been held to be admissible under the Customs Act and FERA. Similarly, confessions for terrorist crimes subject to a finding of their voluntariness are treated as material evidence even in other liberal democracies which have strong anti terror laws. The lack of political consensus in the UPA cannot be a ground for deleting this provision in our law. It is the consensus of the security agencies and the investigators which is more material. By removing this vital provision the effectiveness of this law has been substantially eroded.
(d) Intercepts of telecommunication
The existing law permits intercepts to be used as evidence. The manner in which the intercepts are to be made, the authority competent to sanction intercepts and the safeguards against misuse of the intercepts are the provisions which were present in POTA. These have been deleted in the present law.
National Investigative Agency
The first option under the law is for the Central Agency to investigate a terrorist crime. The central agency can itself decide on the State police investigating a given case. This is because under List-I, Entry 1 the ‘Defence of India’ is the responsibility of the Central Government. An anti terror law is directly related to ‘Defence of India’. The Supreme Court has already held that an anti terror law comes within the Centre’s domain. Therefore, if the Centre can enact a strong anti terror law it must have the power to create an agency to investigate terrorism.
Terrorists offences may involve sharing of Inter-State intelligence; it may also include sharing of trans-border intelligence, it may require police of several States to coordinate its efforts. For some offences, inherently a Central agency would be more effective in dealing with terror.
Conclusion
Sir, we are today paying the political cost of terror. We need an effective anti terror law as terrorism has its adverse effects. It can affect theinvestment environment in the country; it can divert economic resources from development to fighting terror; it can impact on social cohesion in a civil society and create a sectarian divide. Strong anti terror steps can even alienate a small section of people. Diversion of resources to anti terror steps can also affect our defence preparedness. With all these costs and a challenge to national sovereignty, let us today proclaim finally while we re-visit the anti terror law, an anti terror law is a secular law. It does not recognize religion or caste. It’s a law against terrorists and not against a community. Checks have to be imposed to prevent its misuse. Ordinary laws are not enough to deal with terror. But this law is only half a step of a reluctant government. As a Nationalist party we will campaign for the other half but yet support the half measure that you have taken. The only difference being that while we support this measure as a National necessity, the government and its allies appear to be more apologetic in bringing this measure.
Filed under: War on Mumbai, War on Terror, betrayal of aam admi
Great Speech….Arun Jaitley has always been an ardent and articulate advocate of relevant issues within BJP.
BJP should translate important specches into major regional languages, so that common people learns who are these people and what they speaking. BJP can do that through their websites, they just need to add multilingual features. Its my two paisa worth suggestion.
A leader need to speak in common mens languages. Then only speeches made impact. Else it is within gossiping range of less than 2% citizens, who can more or less read, write and speak english. English language sophistry is not the yardstick of a speech, but its content and penetration depth among the masses.
Why Vajpayee’s speeches impact audience, means masses? Simple reason, he speaks the common mens language. A speech in Hindi, if its Arun Jaitley giving, will impact more people (common voters, the ultimate deciders) than in a foreign language. Does anybody cares when Puppet Singh gives lectures in english? He speaks and perhaps he listens (means only few listen).
Some Indian seculars began celebrating the arrest of Sadhvi Pragya Singh, and Lt Col Srikant Purohit as suspects in the Malegaon terror strike of September 30. It was not because the Maharashtra Anti-Terror Squad (ATS) probe was moving ahead. But for a different reason — that is, the suspects happened to be Hindus. The secular megaphones began blaring “see the Hindu terrorists caught in the act”, as if Hindu terror, if that existed, was a discovery to celebrate, not a cause to worry. Read more about this perverse mindset.
S. Gurumurthy in Expressbuzz
http://expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?Title=Terrorists+say+their+motive+is+faith+driven&artid=qbxugWu2T4w=&SectionID=d16Fdk4iJhE=&MainSectionID=d16Fdk4iJhE=&SEO=Malegaon&SectionName=aVlZZy44Xq0bJKAA84nwcg==
Readers view in India Today.
http://indiatoday.digitaltoday.in/
Congress is deliberately trying through Antulay to revive the Malegaon issue to placate its minority vote bank. The same thing happened after Batla House encounter, where inspector Sharma was killed by terrorists, a lot of politicians aired their views that some inside element from police might have killed him.
Dinesh, Mumbai
Arun Jaitley’s speech was SPLENDID and VERY INSPIRING!!
I can’t think of any leader in the recent past, who has delivered such a well thought out speech.
Embarrassed govt to make statement on Antulay’s remarks
http://indiatoday.digitaltoday.in/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=22994§ionid=4&issueid=84&Itemid=1
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Congress embarrased? Sickular jernos can entertain with funny jokes. Whom do Congress want to fool? As the blogger rightly wrote, cat is out. The so-called Anti-terror Bills are deceiving tactics, before the loksabha election. Bills will not fight terrorists, but govts wills and determinations. Are there wills and determinations? Not at all.
Big businesses must wake up and think trillions times if they wish to support Congress-UPA to win election. They should visualise, it can happen to them too. Not only Tata’s Taj, and Oberoi’s.
From govt’s level of preparedness through Jihadi Antulay, one don’t need to be great astrologer/forcaster to predict next terror attacks, any time anywhere in India.
Hey Yoss, since this Demonarchic Congress is planning to bring some law to censor the media (with an excuse of 11/26 coverage and for all the wrong reasons excl. the ones that favors it) after bringing out a half baked Terror law and another bureaucratic ridden agency.
Do you think that Govt. curb on doing exit polls before all the elections in a state are over had some effect on the outcome of past 5 assembly elections? I think May Be.
Is there any way to watch Arun Jaitley’s splendid speech, maybe on youtube?
The best way to publicize speeches is to have pamphlets distributed in deep pockets. Is they need to be translated. Also may be they can have dubbed video displayes through LCD vans if they hae money.
http://broadband.indiatimes.com/showvideo/3858365.cms
Rushdie on Arundhati Roy…..(video)
Well phrased and very very accurate. Even after listening to three most enlightening speeches in this year’s parliament sessions so far – by Advaniji, Arun Shourie and Arun Jaitley, if this government is still shameless of the 5 year mis-rule, then I dont know what to call them!! For country’s sake, at least now they should wake up!!
Excellent speech by Jaitley.
Equally good response by Rushdie to a roy’s unintelligent comments posted by sudhir.
Good thoughts pervading consciousness.
Hi Sudhir:
Excellent article by Gurumurthy!!
Thanks for sharing.
Hope this speech makes it to Youtube and other video sites soon.
Jaitley articulated it well. And the contrasts between the BJP’s stance now and the Congress’s against POTA couldnt be starker.
http://www.dailypioneer.com/144569/Tight-security-in-Kandhamal.html
Sorry for the off-topic..
Things are worsening in Orissa. The Shradhanjali Samiti is adamant that it will go ahead with the bandh. The Christian groups just want to use this to again make International capital of any small incident.
I hope the Samiti calls of the call for a bandh…The prestige of this state is at stake..I believe that, it would be better that, if the bandh is called off..This will bring disrepute to India in general and Orissa in particular.,
We will get another wave of stories on Hindu MIlitancy and similar stuff…
Look at the big picture guys.
Congress took the path of economic liberalization out of compulsion & not out of conviction.
Congress is now taking half-hearted steps toward tougher approach against terror – again out of compulsion & not out of conviction.
Congress chose non-Gandhi PMs (Narasimha Rao & now Manmohan Singh) – again out of compulsion and not out of conviction – at the time of Rao – Sonia wanted nothing to do w/ Politics and 5 years ago – She got scared of the magnitude of responsbility of being a PM & Baby Rahul was & still is in political diapers.
Congress has not even begun to think about “real secularism” & “corruption” neither out of conviction not even out of compulsion. Unfortunately, that day may never come.
In conclusion, when it comes to true national interests (core issues that define what is wrong w/ Indian polity today – lack of liberalized economy for 5 decades, perverted sense of secularism, lack of strong anti-terror infrastructure, corruption and nepotism) Congress has NEVER acted out of conviction but may act only out of compulsion.
Over 3 weeks have passed since the Mumbai terror attacks. And what have we achieved in getting the terror infrastructure dismantled? Absolutely nothing. I’m sure that another few weeks will pass, and we’d be making more speeches, getting more American ‘reactions’, more Antulays and Arundhatis and all the while achieving nothing of consequence.
Kaangres will act only if we have a revolution in the streets demanding resignation of MMS and sacking and destroying the two TV station as they are their mouth pieces for sickularism!
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/india-cancels-jan-cricket-tour-pak-tries-to-give-crisis-a-bilateral-twist/400311/0
Sources said in pressing ahead with the denial approach, Islamabad seems to believe that the worst is over in terms of the Mumbai fallout and that the strategy of diverting issues is delivering results.
Terrorist Arundhati Roy slammed by Salman Rushdie:
Watch the video clip of Salman Rushdie on this page:
http://www.asiasociety.org/resources/081217_mumbai.html
@Umesh:
You wrote: I hope the Samiti calls of the call for a bandh…
Why? To apease the aggressive christian organizations, Sonia Maino and their western masters? Come out of traps of who will say what and false image. Act with convicttions, that reflects strength. Most Bharatiya are false image conscious. They need to learn from Isreal, how to protect own interests and ignore so-called criticism from the west. India don’t belong to west, but we the people of Bharat.
Our full support to Samiti for observing bandh, so that sleeping Patnaik wake up. Why after so long time, Patnaik govt could not catch the real culprits and their masters? What stops Patnaik to arrests conspirators? He is playing at hands of sickulars and westerners, at the cost of self-respect of Hindu samaj and our nation. To deceive Hindus, he created a fake Maoist theory. He is simply a coward and self-seeker. He is like Sarad Pawar, who deceived Hindus by saying bombs are also exploded in muslim areas, after Mumbai serial blasts in 1993, which was 100% lie. He did to confuse hindus and neutralise hindu anger. That shows how good Hindu he is.
Indian christians must act as Bharatiya, and not agents of western masters. If they have grievnce, they have to seek it inside our justice system and not going to western countries.
Western countries must realise, India is not their colony and Hindus are not their sub-servients. Their actions shows, they support aggressive conversion business and then use these converted chrsitians as their agents in India to subjugate Hindus, and finally create chrsitian naitons out of it. East Timur is an recent example.
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Words of Swami Vivekananda:
Strength is life.
Thinking all the time that we are diseased, will not cure us; medicine is necessary.
Being reminded of weakness does not help much. Give strength; and strength does not come by thinking of weakness all the time.
The remedy for weakness is not brooding over weakness, but thinking of strength.
======
Yoss,,, New rule from NBA,. National Broadcasting Association … LIke to know more if you have the info.. control on TV and News papers. itis only for terrorist attack or they should stop the sonia praising too! if it is rajdeep will loose his sleep pronnoy burkha globes too…
@Bharat,
I will not argue/disagree with you. You have your convictions. I will respect that. I had a point of view, which, I have placed forward..
On a different note..I have seen a website called http://www.bharatright.com ..You might want to check it out..
The views are very interesting….
We should have responded when we had the first fidayeen strike at Badami bagh cantonment when Maj Purshottam Sharma was killed, just after the Kargil War…or done something to build our strength for overt / covert actions.
I’m sure, this time too nothing would happen. Even after 5 months of constant pressure, post Dec 13 attacks, Pakistan didn’t do anything. the way we’re progressing right now, I’m sure history would repeat itself this time too.
______________________________________________________________
From the archives… News Article 2 weeks after the Kaluchak strike
http://www.expressindia.com/news/fullstory.php?newsid=10805
Manali, May 26 [2002]: Under pressure from world leaders to observe restraint, Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee on Sunday told them that there was a limit to India’s patience and that Pakistan must act to stop cross-border terrorism.
The Prime Minister said India should have really responded after the December 13 attack on Parliament but at that time the whole world condemned the terrorist strike and urged India to be patient maintaining that such incidents would not recur.
“But the incidents continue with the latest being the Kaluchak strike in which women and children were targeted in a bus and an army camp,” he said.
“India is determined to win the war against terrorism,” Vajpayee asserted while addressing a public meeting after laying the foundation stone of Rs 1,300 crore Rohtang tunnel which will connect Manali with Leh.
The Prime Minister’s remarks come in the wake of calls by world leaders like US President George Bush, British Prime Minister Tony Blair, French President Jacques Chirac and Canadian Prime Minister Jeam Christian for restraint on India’s part. They have also asked Pakistan to take steps to end cross-border terrorism against India.
“We have to take care of our security. The international community should understand that there is a limit to India’s patience. We are waiting as to how much the efforts of the international community (to persuade Pakistan to stop cross border terrorism) will succeed,” Vajpayee said in his 20-minute speech.
VAJPAYEE TELLS WORLD INDIA’S PATIENCE IS LIMITED
The world must understand there was a limit to India’s patience and said the country was ready to defeat terrorism. But he also said India would await the outcome of international efforts to persuade Pakistan to crack down on militants.
“There is limit to our patience and tolerance. The efforts that are going on, we will see to what extent they bear fruit, whether ongoing terrorism is stopped or not,” Vajpayee said. “But we want to tell the world community… that if there is a global war against terrorism, American forces are in Afghanistan, then how can we go on tolerating terrorist acts in our country?”
His speech was broadcast live on DD. The tone of Vajpayee’s speech was firm, but not as aggressive as one last week when he told troops on the front line that India must be ready for a “decisive fight”. That speech raised fears of war between India and Pak, who have amassed nearly a million soldiers on their common border since a December attack on India’s Parliament.
DELAYED RESPONSE
Vajpayee said that India should have responded immediately to the attack on its Parliament but was persuaded to wait by the international community. “The day the attack on Parliament took place they should have got a response from India. But the world said whatever has happened was bad was wrong and should not have happened. “Please keep patient… these things will not be repeated from now on. But such incidents continued,” said Vajpayee.
The latest attack was on an army camp in Jammu and Kashmir earlier this month in which 34 people, many of them wives and children of soldiers on the front line, died. “We want a change in the situation and we want to defeat terrorism in its entirety. Soldiers are on the border ready to lay down their lives,” said Vajpayee, calling on the country to unite to face the challenges ahead. “We want victory. We want victory over terrorism and everybody’s contribution is necessary,” he said.
Vajpayee made no reference to missile tests currently being conducted by Pakistan. India has said it is not concerned by the missile tests, which it said seemed to be catering to Pakistan’s domestic audience.
Aha. A posse of interest8ng headlines from IE today.
Antulay offers to resign but not retract
IOW, he sticks to his ridiculuous story that will feed the frenzied delusions and toxic accusations of every manner of pimtellectual, pseudo-liberal, closet jihadi and paki-BD in the world based on the statements of a union minister in Dilli. That is precisely what Antulay intends by not retracting his BS and allowing it to become part of ‘record’.
Meanwhile, Muscova is jumping into the fray as well
Dawood network financed Mumbai terror: Moscow
Wow. And make no mistake, obvious as it sounds to us nationalists, this is something that needs to be repeated at every occasion coz GoI is hell-bent on burying further investigations into the *local support network* of the 26/11 turds. There’s no doubt local elements involved can and will expose local (and perhaps national) netas if caught.
Dhanajay,
You’re 100% right. Its no secret that nothing in our Des moves unless crisis hits the fan. Crisis alone forces change against the determoined inertia of vested interests and a bloated babucracy. Which is why we should renewedly appreciate the few things that did happen against vested interests – such as our persisting with the N-weapons program against the will of the entire world, their intelligence agencies, and every manner of bribe, threat and challenge. Kudos to PVN and ABV. Lesser men like Morarji and MMS would’ve sold us out long ago.
As for terror, I believe GoI is right in not responding in either pique or fear on the external front. We should think our options through and got war only when we are ready on our terms. On the internal front, intertia on the anti-terror front requires far bigger crises to push anything meaningful along, perhaps.
Just my 2 paise.
/Have a nice day, all.
(Oops comment in moderation que. Gotta chnage the email I use)
Aha. A posse of interest8ng headlines from IE today.
Antulay offers to resign but not retract
IOW, he sticks to his ridiculuous story that will feed the frenzied delusions and toxic accusations of every manner of pimtellectual, pseudo-liberal, closet jihadi and paki-BD in the world based on the statements of a union minister in Dilli. That is precisely what Antulay intends by not retracting his BS and allowing it to become part of ‘record’.
Meanwhile, Muscova is jumping into the fray as well
Dawood network financed Mumbai terror: Moscow
Wow. And make no mistake, obvious as it sounds to us nationalists, this is something that needs to be repeated at every occasion coz GoI is hell-bent on burying further investigations into the *local support network* of the 26/11 turds. There’s no doubt local elements involved can and will expose local (and perhaps national) netas if caught.
Dhanajay,
You’re 100% right. Its no secret that nothing in our Des moves unless crisis hits the fan. Crisis alone forces change against the determoined inertia of vested interests and a bloated babucracy. Which is why we should renewedly appreciate the few things that did happen against vested interests – such as our persisting with the N-weapons program against the will of the entire world, their intelligence agencies, and every manner of bribe, threat and challenge. Kudos to PVN and ABV. Lesser men like Morarji and MMS would’ve sold us out long ago.
As for terror, I believe GoI is right in not responding in either pique or fear on the external front. We should think our options through and got war only when we are ready on our terms. On the internal front, intertia on the anti-terror front requires far bigger crises to push anything meaningful along, perhaps.
Just my 2 paise.
/Have a nice day, all.
Meanwhile Pakistan as usual is blazing the trail on how islamic republics should treat ‘intellectuals’.
Sad eviction of Dr Zaidi
The scholar was making ready to leave for Lahore at the end of the month when the police arrived and literally kicked him out, throwing his belongings out in the street.
This is not the way you treat your intellectuals of repute. (Something similar was done to Prof Ahmad Hassan Dani some years ago.) Dr Zaidi worked for 18 years to produce his delightfully annotated 16 volumes in English, six in Urdu and one in Persian. And, according to a report in the press, he did not draw a penny from the government as salary. The Estate Office says: “Dr Zaidi had occupied the house illegally for the last eight years. He owes Rs1.6 million rent for the house to the government”. We cannot decide here who owes more to whom, but the authorities could have waited till the end of December before attacking his home. After having waited for eight years, they could have waited for a fortnight more. *
Wow.
Wouldn’t wish such disgraceful treatment on anybody but hey, some of our stellar pimtellectuals like Aroy, Purchase bhushan, Assish nandy, promila thappad, Suardesai, sag-reek-aah, Dram Guha and the like are close to the edge on this one. Heh heh.
The BJP/NDA should stop being defensive about Khandahar and the Parliment attack.
here’s a simple slogan
We (NDA) traded terrorists (Azhar) for Indian lives – UPA trades with terrorism for votes.
Keep hammering away at this. But also acknowledge that the trade for Azhar was a grave mistake and BJP will bring in a law that would prevent any govt. from negotiating with terrorists – much like the American policy.
@Sudhir,
thanks for the link – neat stuff.
Rushdie has personally felt the pain of radical islam and understands its true danger.
A small change:
The slogan should be:
We (NDA) traded terrorists (Azhar) for Indian lives – UPA trades indian lives for minority votes.
Communal Antulay was showing a “V” sign while entering the Parliament house as shown by Star TV. I too ask, what is the meaning of that “V” sign. Is it a signal to somebody that he has successfully done as per their bidding. From here on it is their responsibility to take it ahead. As a Minister whatever is said by him carries much weight and can be quoted. And while sitting inside the Parliament he had a mischievous smile in his face. Zardari makes umpteen U-turns (surely at the behest of the all powerful ISI and Pakistan army). But this man won’t – a real man belonging to the fifth column.
Arun Jaitley is a good orator and a clear thinker ! He is certainly an asset to BJP…
This speech, however, gives away BJP’s frustration – as they see Congress taking away BJP’s electoral planks one by one – starting from tough measures on terrorism, its stand on Afzal Guru hanging, and so on ! The N-deal was a serious embarrassment to BJP which it oppossed. Inflation is coming down and will reach very comfortable levels before Parliamentary polls.
In a nut shell, the rug is being pulled below the feet of BJP and that makes them worry even more – even as they came out scathed from the latest Assembly polls. Lucky for BJP, the poll results would have been 4-1 if Mumbai siege had not happened !
By the way, nobody in this blog mentioned about the speech by Kapil Sibal – tearing into LKA’s record as Home Minister (particularly on terrorism) ! How could LKA think that people will not catch his lie when he said that he did not know about the Kandahar release ?
RoW – delusion works well in the studios in new delhi, but its returns diminish dramatically with the “distance from delhi” factor
My friend ROW,
Every one knows how much legitimacy Kapil Sibal has (Congress one of the best spin doctor who even divide people in to secular vote and communal vote. I think kapil sibal fans like you remember his interviews with news channels after karnataka elections).
And he said same thing what congress is saying from past 4 and half years.
For people like you who follow and believe Elite communist English media perception it looks good.
Just 2 days back the same person said tuff terror law won’t stop terrorist then why his secular communal party making tuff terror law.
Then what about one more spin doctor Manu Singvi.
Common men think with your own brain.
If confessions to cops are not accepted by the courts under this new law then forget justice for the victims. Kiss it goodbye. Go to another country where the govt can guarantee your safety or at the very least justice and closure.
As Arun Shourie put it the human rights of a terrorist should be respected upto the point he respects his victims’ human rights. Unfortunately the bleeding heart intellectuals just don’t get it and NEITHER DOES THIS GOVT.
Kaaangress go back. we dont want any more R0W is the kaangress guy acting as sickular here…
The dynasty rule we dont want…
@Ksv
We should tap these Antulay kind of animal’s phone, mobile and email communications and show the people who is the real enemy… the Theif is in the Ship itself.
Both Arun Jaitley and Arun Shourie are good orators – or should I say they are good at articulating their views in spoken and written english. But this is where their similarities end !
The most important difference between the two is – while Arun Jaitley is a clear thinker, Arun Shourie very often display extremely muddled thinking !
However their mass appeal is limited by the fact that they are not as good communicators in Hindi or other local languages – where the style of delivery is ususually more important than the command over the language. This is where Atal Bihari Vajpayee used to score over most other leaders, apart from his other qualities as a leader. Lalu Praad Yadav also has this quality in abundance. Not Manmohan Singh ! He is simply a good man with a rational mind who is aware of his strengths and weaknesses. But it is integrity and conviction of thinking that sets him apart from all other political leaders.
Lal Krishna Advani is a very good orator and also used to have clear thinking at one point of time. But continuous needling by RSS and his over-bearring ambition to become PM has muddled his thinking in the last 7 years or so…
RSS is doing a huge mistake by announcing Bandh on Christmas Day in Orissa.
Dhrama’s view: They are going for collateral damage and giving collective punishment to the entire Christian community in Orissa even though only a few of them might be guilty of killing Swami lakshmananda. This is wrong and Hinduism does not condone this. This is against what our scriptures teach us.
Political View: This will become a major self goal. This bandh will get huge huge international attention. RSS will lose credibility among the independent voters in India. And by association BJP will have to pay the price. Indian/Hindu reputation as peaceful religion will be tarnished for sometime to come. This route to show their power is really stupid to say the least. The perpetrators of the crime must be laughing in their churches. If they really want to take revenge take it on the people whom they suspect not on the entire community. That will send out a much more powerful signal than this stupid act. This shows the complete lack of strategic sense in RSS thinkers.
RSS/VHP/BJ preys on the weak like Christian preists and nuns ! They do not have the guts to challenge the Muslim radicals and terrorists because their trishuls cannot face up to the AK47s…
BJP has and will always pay the price for their misadventures…
RoW, I would like to say Fcuk off. But I wont because you wont.
Sonia/Manmohini/Sivarjpati/chidambaram like opportunist sell our country and the latest is Antulay.. for their own selfish Greed. and you like to live in that kind of mess and shit. any way people who really thinks with their brains knows.. what was sonia once. and she does not even know how to speak! and she is a leader of the party. and lot of chamchas near by. at least RSS/BJP have Trishul.. this people sell the country to Pakistan..
Antulay resigns.
http://dailypioneer.com/144647/Antulay-has-sent-his-resignation-to-the-Prime-Minister.html
Antulay must go
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Editorial/EDIT_He_Must_Go/articleshow/3858734.cms
Personally, I think Kapil Sibal and Arun Jaitley are almost on par with each other in terms of articulation skills.Not a surprise because both of them are highly successful lawyers.
Jaitley’s speech is very good.Sibal didn’t do too badly either, but I don’t see why this blog has to carry Sibal’s speech.Aren’t the IBNs and NDTVs of the world doing enough?
Coming to the point regarding Kandhahar, the then Home Minister’s failure lies more at an operational response level – the flight was allowed to take off from Indian soil (after refueling if I remember correctly), and once it reached Afghan soil, there was really no option for the Indian govt. If they had not handed over Masood Azhar, the terrorists would have almost certainly killed all the hostages; I think at that time the entire political spectrum and the media put a lot of pressure on the Govt to save the hostages lives.And any way, Indian culture and mentality is such that we will never be like Russia. We will always agree to such demands in the interests of saving innocent lives.
But yes, the entire incident is a blot on the NDA rule, especially on LKA’s efficiency as a Home Minister.He may have been better than Shivraj Patil, but in terms of results, equally bad.
However, what is painful is that the entire political class has not learnt anything from all these terror attacks.They are all still politicising the issue to no end.People like Jaitley, Sibal etc are at best scoring brownie points over each other.And the ‘aam aadmi’ doesn’t seem to have much interest in the ongoing debate in Parliament.
Is it such a tall order for UPA and NDA to work in a bi-partisan way on issues of national security?Who can step in and play the statesman here?
If APJ was the President, we could have expected him to admonish the entire political class and ask them to work together.Mrs.Pratibha Patil seems uninterested in all these issues.
Antulay: Icon of Islamic Evil
http://haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx?PageID=7821&SKIN=B
Esh,
Agree with you that it is a mistake to call for a bandh on X-Mas day.It will unnecessarily create an issue that won’t benefit the Hindutva forces in any way.
OTOH, suppose there is a bandh by CPM in WB around Nav Ratri time; or a huge rally/bandh in Bangalore by Deve Gowda on Kannada New Years day.Will it really hamper the normal people in celebrating their festival.Will a bandh stop Xtians from attending Mass at the local Church, or setting up a X-Mas tree at home, and exchanging gifts with near and dear?
The Xtian leaders are leveraging the bandh to internationalise the issue again.And the Sangh Parivar is playing into their hands.What a pity !
Compulsion of coalition politics weighs down the freedom of PMs, HMs, et al.
LKA and Shivraj Patil cannot be put in comparison of each other.
After Mumbai attacks, BJP has openly supported UPA govt. for anti terror laws. Now when the UPA has brought out its new measures, BJP has supported them, like Jaitely said ‘half measures’. If BJP is brought to power, the other ‘half measures’ will be completed.
Kapil Sibal relies on past to condemn NDA. Arun Jaitely remembers the past, lives in the present and wants to strengthen India’s future by demanding all anti-terror measures are secular. Congress is indeed failing the country here when it is assured by main opposition party, BJP, of its all out support for anti-terror measures.
Country is going to pay its heavy price for Congress’s delinquency.
RoW@41: Even though I personally totally disagree with the Bandh on Christmas day sponsored by VHP, RSS etc., I have reservations on your view about the peaceful/weak nature of Christian nuns, priests etc. From crusades to inquisition the followers of this religions tells a different story. The ghastly way the inquisition was conducted in Goa is beyond comprehension. Now to get the national and international attention they are playing weak and persecuted. But they are one with the perpetrators of extremism in North East and in Orissa. This does not bode well for either Christianity or India. Violence can take many forms – physical, written and spoken etc., By publishing materials such as Sata darshini etc., they too are a violent sect these times also. You cannot expect the hindus to practice Gandhian principles always while minorities use all foul means.
kumar,
That kind of logic will not work because of an unfriendly media and an unfriendly govt. at the center. Even in normal times the MSM does not use logic to analyze events. They are a bunch of monkeys who just want to increase their TRPs. Even rightists and nationalists are feeling that his move by RSS is wrong, think what left-liberal media is going to make out of it.
If RSS had any strategic sense they would pick a fight of this magnitude when things are going good for them. It is not the right time for this fight. They are just being reactive not pro-active.
Esh and Kumar:
Agree and disagree with both of you.
But as i see it as poetic justice. After all Swamiji was killed on Janmashtami day when SriKrishna was born.
So on Xmas Day when Jesus was born we are asking for the killers of Swamiji to be brought to justice
Bhanu,
That would be a good thing to say in an ideal world. Unfortunately, we dont live in such a world. We need to pick and choose fights when we know we are going to win. I dont see any upside to this move by RSS from a strategic point of view. They may win this battle, but it could be a setback in the over all war.
Esh:
Who will gain the most by this bandh? The xtians, BJP, Congress, maoists?
This bandh call was given long ago.
Whoever gains or not, the moral and strategic upper ground gained by the nationalists after the Mumbai terrorist attack will disappear after this incident. The question is about the action not the causality of the action. EU ambassadors have already met the govt. officials in Orissa. If this event happens, get ready to face hell from western media and by induction Indian English language media.
To get some perspective read the first few links here:
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~dludden/Hindutva1.htm
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/army-told-to-wait-for-madeinindia-nigh…/400322/
ANother criminal example of how our babudom hold our armed forces by its balls
Esh:
agree with you. this is a wrong time. wait till the time is right.
if this is what univ of pennsylvania publishes as edits then i fear to know what the actual discussion must be like.
Hello Kumar
>>The Xtian leaders are leveraging the bandh to internationalise the issue again.
Of course that’s what “Christian leaders” are for, and it is ridiculous to assume that they will wait for you to given them an issue to “internationalize”. They set this in motion when they planned the killing of the Swami.
I am not necessarily supporting or opposing this bandh, but optimally a Hindu org like VHP ought to give a damn if the bandh it called for is on the day of a rival religious org’s festival. Did the late head honcho of the Vatican think too much about giving a call to plant the “Christian Cross in India” on a holy Hindu day (diwali), that too when he was a guest in India? I do think VHP is right in not fearing the international lung power of “Christian leadres”.
>>If this event happens, get ready to face hell from western media and by induction Indian English language media.
Yes dear Esh, face it. They have already scored a victory if you fear them so much.
Another thing comes to mind. Back in 1999 VHP et al wanted to protest John Paul’s visit. John Paul as you remember was an aggressively proselytizing pope, and more fundamentalist than they come. The government of the day — ironically NDA government — cracked down and otherwise prevailed on VHP to cancel the protest. No wonder VHP is so pissed with the BJP.
To recall a similar incident in recent times: the UPA governemnt cracked down on Tibetan groups palnning to protest the Chinese premier’s visit to India.
The bigger question: should our people’s right to religious and political expression, their right to protest, be curbed to appease Christian and Communist extremists outside India?
Pak terror is bribe ruse
By Brahma Chellaney
“Terrorists are still coming in from Pakistan,” India’s lumbering external affairs minister lamented in Parliament last week. India can be sure terrorists will keep arriving from across the borders, emboldened as they and their patrons would be from New Delhi’s pusillanimity in not taking the smallest of small steps against Pakistan even as a token expression of India’s outrage over the Mumbai assaults by 10 terrorists — all from Pakistan’s Punjab province.
After every major terrorist assault, India can expect — as has been the case since the Mumbai attacks — visits by high-ranking public figures from overseas who will offer loads of sympathy, heartily pat the septuagenarians and octogenarians governing India for their restraint, and then peddle their eclectic wares — from seeking access for their police to investigate terrorist strikes in India and question arrested suspects, to urging New Delhi to use the latest tragedy to resolve the Kashmir issue with Pakistan.
The visitors are not stupid not to know that cross-border terrorism would not end even if India were to offer Kashmir on a platter to Pakistan. After all, the self-declared mission of the Lashkar-e-Tayyaba — still actively aided by the Pakistani intelligence — is “global jihad”, with the specific goal to set up a caliphate across southern, central and southeastern Asia. And as was shown by the 1999 Kargil invasion, when Pakistani Army regulars encroached masquerading as “mujahideen”, a thin line can separate the military establishment from its pet terror groups.
India’s becoming an easy prey for terrorists is linked not to the Kashmir issue but to its effete leadership, which won’t impose any costs on the sponsors of terror, yet unabashedly appeals to other states to fight India’s war on terrorism. Unable to think and act strategically, the leadership has helped turn India into a classic lamb State that can be continually gored without fear of retribution. Tellingly, if Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has made any vow after Mumbai, it is — to quote his words in Parliament — “to galvanise the international community into dealing sternly and effectively with the epicentre of terrorism which is located in Pakistan”.
Making the most of such bloated Indian expectations, the visiting dignitaries seek to push their countries’ own geopolitical agendas, centred on narrow tactical considerations than on a larger strategy to deracinate Pakistan’s jihad culture. In being guided by politically expedient considerations, however, they play right into the hands of the extortionist Pakistani military and its Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency.
At the crux of the problem are the bribes the Pakistani military establishment openly seeks from the international community for any move on its part:
l To help rein in the Taliban — which it continues to bolster while pretending to be an ally in the US-led war on terror — it demands generous US military aid, although it has already diverted (according to American admissions) much of the received assistance to beef up forces against India.
l To sever its institutional support to India-directed terror groups, it demands a resolution — to its satisfaction — of the intractable and unsolvable Kashmir dispute.
l Having stunted nation-building and turned Pakistan into the world’s “Problemistan”, it now warns the Pakistani State would implode unless the US continues its aid flow, totalling nearly $2 billion a year.
l To patrol Pakistan’s own border with Afghanistan, it demands — and gets — a special US payment of around $100 million a month.
l It scripts terror attacks in India and then immediately spotlights the Kashmir issue. The Mumbai attackers could have learned their amphibious assault skills only from military handlers, not non-State actors. Yet, shortly after the Mumbai assaults, Pakistan told the UN Security Council that, “The best outcome of the tragedy would be the resolution of the issue of Kashmir”.
Given the ruthlessness with which the military-style terrorist assaults were executed, the capture of one supposed suicide attacker alive and the relatively moderate death toll of 32 in the Taj Mahal Hotel and 33 in Oberoi-Trident (more civilians died at a major train station than at either of the two besieged hotels) indicate the operation did not go the way it had been planned by the masterminds in Pakistan. Had New Delhi not ordered the commando storming but gone in for negotiations, the four terrorists in the Taj and the two each at the Oberoi-Trident and the Jewish Centre would have held India hostage for days on end while putting the international spotlight on a plethora of demands — from Kashmir to jailed terrorists in India.
The real issue is not Kashmir but the Pakistani military, which, after six decades of direct and indirect rule, has become too fat to return to the barracks. Indeed, it won’t fit in the barracks. To retain its power and prerogative in society, the military needs the India-threat bogey. The military genuinely believes that a Pakistan stripped of its core cementing element — eternal enmity with India — would be reduced to a battlefield for its five feuding ethnic groups. It has thus kept alive the Kashmir issue.
Had India been an irredentist State, seeking to reclaim the Kashmir territories now held by Pakistan (35 per cent) and China (20 per cent), the Pakistani military may have been justified in projecting an India threat. But India is for maintaining the territorial status quo — a position not acceptable to the Pakistani military, which over the years has sought to change the status quo through open war and now unconventional conflict.
In recent years, India has worked with Pakistan to create a virtually borderless Kashmir to help facilitate the free movement of people, goods and services. New transportation links have been established as a first step. Given that Kashmir’s division into Indian, Pakistani and Chinese parts cannot be undone, what does a “resolution” of the Kashmir dispute entail beyond such steps?
The blunt truth is that Kashmir is not the cause but the symbol of India-Pakistan differences, which are rooted in history and the politics of revenge, besides epitomising competing worldviews and a divide along civilisational fault lines. As General Pervez Musharraf candidly put it in a 1999 speech, Pakistan’s low-intensity war with India would continue even if the Kashmir issue were magically resolved. The military for long has fancied India’s Balkanisation as Pakistan’s salvation.
The way out of this situation is for the US, Britain and others to help empower Pakistan’s civilian government, which today is neither in charge of the country’s national-security apparatus nor in a position to stop the Army’s meddling in foreign policy. To pressure the victim, India, to pander to the Pakistani military’s insatiable demands on Kashmir is to promote greater roguishness and to overlook the fact that the Pakistani Army is waging a mortal combat with the Indian republic.
But why blame international figures when India’s own leaders fail to grasp the nature of the mortal combat? India’s leadership deficit is manifest from the innocent pleas to Pakistan, including the extradition of 42 fugitives and the dismantlement of the State-run terrorist infrastructure.
Which Pakistan is going to do that? The powerless civilian government? The Janus-faced military establishment? Did the latter set up the terror complex to wage a war of a thousand cuts against India or to dismantle it at the enemy’s bidding? If they really wish to bring that establishment to heel, what costs are India’s leaders ready to impose?
Ot,
We all know about the devious minds of Xtian proselytisers.
However, I don’t agree with the concept of bandh as such.It results in wastage and loss, and doesn’t solve any problem.
The VHP can simply gherao the investigating police officers/ministers and demand answers.A bandh will only create negative vibes in the public mind about the Sangh Parivar.
Just my opinion.You don’t have to agree.
Going Off topic here,
I think Anthulay is right in saying there is conspiracy and “terrorism plus”, just not in the way he puts it. I’ll explain what I think was the original plan below
# Terrorists hijack vessel originating in Porbandar, to give an impression later that they started their journey from their.
# They are clean shaven, with saffron bands on their hands, to misguide people into thinking they are Hindus.
# They do a hit and run attack. purpose of the entire mission.
# Some insiders (probably from Congress) agreed to send /guide Karare and others to a pre-determined spot, where they would killed to make it look like it was a revenge attack for arresting Sadhvi, Purohit and others,
# The terrorists were to leave behind RDX bombs that are deliberately fused wrongly in public places, giving a impression that they wanted to create a big mayhem if the bombs had worked.
# They were to kill Jews at Nariman house to give impression that “Hindu terrorists killed Jews to give impression of them being Muslims.”
# The planners probably hoped that attackers would be quickly killed, but they instructed the terrorists to escape into darkness and take shelter at pre-determined safe houses. (in case some of them survived)
# The attackers were probably promised a safe return to Pak after the heat dies down, but in reality they would have been killed and dumped after being dressed up as Hindus.
If the plan was successful, the whole story would have looked like this:
A dozen Hindu boys from heartland of Hindutva, took a boat from Porbandar and arrived at Bombay to create mayhem. Knowing fully well that “braveheart” Karkare would come to neutralize them, they hanged around shooting people till Karkare arrived after which they shot him dead and ran away leaving behind powerful RDX bombs to destroy evidence, which luckily didn’t work. This RDX, of course, came from the 60Kg stock Purohit had accumulated before being arrested. Jews at Nariman house and foreigners at hotels were killed to give “impression” that they were Muslim terrorists. The fact that they knew interiors of Taj well is proof of heavy involvement of local Hindu hardliners. The surviving boys ran away to secret locations their Hindu leaders had asked them to. The fascist Hindu leaders killed the boys to hide evidence of their involvement.
What went wrong?
The terror kids were probably too high on drugs when they came in. Too starry eyed to carry out their plan, they went around shooting people and lost the plot once they killed Karkare. The mission got completely messed up when one Fidayeen was caught alive by local Police.
If the plan was to merely dress up as Hindus to give a wrong impression, this could have been termed a simple plan. But the deliberate killing of Karkare exposes / lends credence to the fact that some insiders in the state or Central Government are part of a conspiracy to raise the pitch on “Hindu terror” before elections.
But there is one important thing still missing thought in the BJP’s argument, police reforms. Any new agency or law will still be powered with the same police that desperately needs help. Police reforms ought to receive the same priority.
http://specials.rediff.com/news/2008/dec/19mumterror-antulay-sends-resignation-letter-to-pm.htm
Rediff’s sources say antulay has sent resignation letter to MMS
Interesting thought by Ajay.
But doubtful due to the fact that this operation seems to have been planned over a long period, much before Sadhvi was arrested.
The operation could have been planned long ago, but its easy to adopt small changes quickly. Taj may have been in their sight, but its easy to add things like Nariman house or RDX at last stage. Remember these guys carried stuff like GPS, else it would have been impossible to spot Nariman house for an outsider in a span of hours in a new city, even if he was given directions. Besides Sadhvi arrest could also have been long in planning. We all know ex-CM of MP has been speaking about it for years. Cooking even the whimsical evidence under which Purohit and Co are being held would have taken months if not years.
Sangh Parivar calls off Odisha bandh on Christmas
http://www.kalingatimes.com/odisha_news/news/20081219_Sangh_Parivar_calls_off_Odisha_bandh_on_Christmas.htm
Finally sense prevailed. Advaniji has played a very commendable role here.
[...] Yossarian, here is the full text of speech as made by him in Rajya Sabha during discussion on the [...]
Yossarin,
As usual, thanks for the great job. Is there a location where someone can watch these speeches?
[...] the enemy mind. Obviously, an anti terror law is not a replacement of all these. Unquote [Source: http://offstumped.nationalinterest.in/2008/12/18/arun-jaitleys-speech-in-rajya-sabha-on-nia-uapa-bil.... It is not necessary here to get into the utterly perverse nature of Jaitley’s [...]
[...] the enemy mind. Obviously, an anti terror law is not a replacement of all these. Unquote [Source: http://offstumped.nationalinterest.in/2008/12/18/arun-jaitleys-speech-in-rajya-sabha-on-nia-uapa-bil.... It is not necessary here to get into the utterly perverse nature of Jaitley’s [...]
[...] [Source: http://offstumped.nationalinterest.in/2008/12/18/arun-jaitleys-speech-in-rajya-sabha-on-nia-uapa-bil... [...]