Offstumped – Center Right Indian Politics

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based on Dharma, Liberalism and Nationalism

Dharma 701 or maybe 101 – for many dont seem to get it

A long time Offstumped reader brought this piece by Mr. Arun Shourie to this blogger’s notice. Mr. Shourie covers some familiar terrain here on Dharma, Gita and the variance in Tilak and?Gandhi’s interpretations.

Before we get to that Offstumped would like to state for the record that Mr. Shourie has been an inspiration and a role model to this blogger from High School days. His editorial stance at the height of the Anti-Reservation stir during the Mandal era was stellar. His penchant for making arguments that are rooted in facts and logical analysis makes him stand tall above the rest of the psuedo intellectual crowd.

The one defining attribute of Mr. Shourie that this blogger has attempted to imbibe is his intellectual courage in challenging conventional wisdom and never giving in to political correctness.

That said let us get to the heart of this post. Mr. Shourie writing in the Indian Express on December 27th had this to say on the subject of “Hindutva and radical Islam: Where the twain do meet”.

That grain is the fact that every tradition has in it, every set of scriptures has in it enough to justify extreme, even violent reaction.

Mr. Shourie’s basic premise is flawed, Offstumped will get to that in a moment. But to argue his premise Mr. Shourie meanders into something Offstumped originally began its whole thought process on Dharma, Flat World Hindutva.

From the very same Gita from which Gandhiji derived non-violence and satyagraha, Lokmanya Tilak constructed the case for ferocious response, not excluding violence. From the very same Gita from which Gandhiji derived his ?true law?, shatham pratyapi satyam, ?Truth even to the wicked?, the Lokmanya derived his famous maxim, shatham prati shaathyam, ?Wickedness to the wicked.?

Could the variance between two interpretations be greater than is the case between the Lokmanya?s Gita Rahasya and Gandhiji?s Anashakti Yoga? Yet both constructions are by great and devout Hindus. Are ordinary Hindus nailed to Gandhiji?s rendering? After all, at the end of the Gita, Arjuna does not go off to sit at one of our non-violent dharnas. He goes into blood-soaked battle.

The above analysis and conclusion drawn by Mr. Shourie is a classic mistake made by most who find themselves trapped in the “progressive liberal” template of “Violence versus Non-Violence”.

Mr. Shourie for all his scars from a lifetime of fighting the political correctness of the Left has made the mistake of accepting the Left’s template to frame his case and in the process ends drawing the wrong conclusions on Gandhi and Tilak’s interpretations of the Gita.

Let us be very clear

- Dharma does not concern itself with the silly Violence versus Non-Violence debate.

- Dharma does not pass a value judgement on the relative morality or immorality of Violence over Non-Violence

To frame the debate on any issue from the narrow prism of Violence versus Non-Violence is to make an intellectually insipid argument. It reflects a poor understanding of Dharma and a tacit acceptance of “Progressive Liberalism” as the overarching template for all public debate.

So one may ask how pray should Mr. Shourie have framed his argument ?

Instead of trying to explain away the apparent variances between Tilak and Gandhi’s interpretation to rationalize violent responses Mr. Shourie should have looked deeper into Mr. Gandhi’s interpretation of the Gita? (refer Offstumped on a Gandhian Doctrine for Anti-Terrorism) and he would have seen not a variance but commonality called “righteousness” or “Dharma” (also refer Offstumped on Golwalkar).

Had he done Mr. Shourie would have seen that be it Gita Rahsya or Anashakti Yoga, it is not about choosing between Violence over Non-Violence but it is about choosing the “righteous path” over the “unrighteous path”.

Mr. Shourie in fact almost discovered the flaw in his premise when he asks how come Arjuna after a discourse from Krishna went to fight a blood soaked battle.

But he misses the point when he concludes

The mistake is to assume that the sterner stance is something that has been fomented by this individual or that ?in the case of Hindutva, by, say, Veer Savarkar ? or by one organisation, say the RSS or the VHP. That is just a comforting mistake ? the inference is that once that individual is calumnised, once that organisation is neutralised, ?the problem? will be over. Large numbers do not gravitate to this interpretation rather than that merely because an individual or an organisation has advanced it ? after all, the interpretations that are available on the shelf far outnumber even the scriptures. They gravitate to the harsher rendering because events convince them that it alone will save them.

Offstumped has respectfully disagree with Mr. Shourie here.

They sir gravitate towards bigoted, distorted and underinformed interpretations because of Poor Intellectual and Political Leadership and nothing else.

If large numbers believe that in stray acts of violence targetting innocents there is salvation it is because this Nation has failed them in providing the kind of Leadership they deserve.

Mr. Shourie then goes on to lament the twin evils that imperil the fabric of our society – aggresive proselytism and Jihadist Terrorist, but in doing so he unwittingly adopts the second “Progressive Liberal” template of “Victimhood”.

There is a real vice here. The three great religions that originated in Palestine and Saudi Arabia ? Judaism, Christianity and Islam ? have been exclusivist ? each has insisted that it alone is true ? and aggressive. The Indic religions ? Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism ? have been inclusive, they have been indulgent of the claims of others. But how may the latter sort survive when it is confronted by one that aims at power, acquires it, and then uses it to enlarge its dominion? How is the Indic sort to survive when the other uses the sword as well as other resources ? organised missionaries, money, the state ? to proselytise and to convert?

Offstumped must once again respectfully disagree with Mr. Shourie when he succumbs to the emotional weakness of victimhood.

By viewing the Hindu way of life from the western monotheistic template of religion we suffer paranoia and anger while failing to see that what appears on the outside as a weakness is an inherent strength.

You sir miss the point on how we survived 4000 years of civilization while many have perished in the sands of time.? It survives not because of a central controlling authority or proselytising agency – Pontificate or Caliphate. Its a decentralized faith. It can morph and evolve and transform itself in a million ways. It survives because of this inherent strength. It is like how species surive through the process of Natural Evolution.

If today there is a perceived threat it is not primarily because of the monotheistic faiths but because of our intellectual atrophy in not recognizing this inherent strength. We have attempted to monotheize this way of life in our knee-jerk response to the perceived threats from the monotheistic faiths.

That exactly is why Mr. Shourie’s prescription is flawed when he quotes Swami Vivekananda

It is because of this vice, and the realisation born from what had already come to pass that Swami Vivekananda, for instance, while asking the Hindus to retain their Hindu soul, exhorted them to acquire an ?Islamic body?.

Sir one must humbly submit that there is no room for a Dharmic Soul in what you imagine to be an Islamic Body. What good is such a body if it cannot tell right from wrong and the righteous from the un-righteous.

In closing Offstumped would like to say this.

No People or Civilization can achieve greatness who are trapped in the self defeatist mindset of victimhood.

Victimhood is not a sign of strength or self confidence it is a negative that has a debilitating effect on intellect to cloud one’s mind into confusing Vengeance to be Justice.

We can win against aggressive Proselytism and Jihadist Terrorism. But first we must win over our own emotions to remember that it is not about choosing Violence over Non-Violence but it is about choosing Righteousness over Adharma.

Randomly targeting someone of a monotheistic faith through Riots and Bomb Blasts is Vengeance and Adharma.

Aiding and Assisting the State in nabbing Terrorists and bringing them to Justice is Dharma.

Making the Hindu way of life relevant, inspiring and hopeful to the those at the fringes of society is Dharma.

Those who fail to make this fundamental distinction are a far greater threat to our way of life than any of the perceived external threats.

Filed under: Dharma-debates, Flat World Hindutva, War on Terror, betrayal of aam admi

42 Responses

  1. galeo rhinus says:

    In this context – would righteous action be limited to a single act or a collection of actions?

    A flaw in Gandhian thinking was not only that it lend itself as a basis for progressive liberals to set the rules of the debate – but that it lacked the patience for the actions to play out. A single incident in 1922 was used as a justification to reverse his position.

    The path of righteousness could very easily intersect moments that are not. Let not these intersecting distractions divert us from this path.

    I agree with your basic premise and the change of position vis-a-vis these events – but I think you are being hasty and rigid in the four concluding statements of what is and what isn’t “dharma.”

  2. yossarin says:

    Galeo – didn’t get ur point on 1922. Just so u know I believe all means were righteous to overthrow the british. As far as last 4 stmts go they are not a judgement on the malegaon case but a judghement on all those who seek to argue that such reactions are understandable.

    On ur other qn on righteousness. Actions at all times shud be righteous.

  3. Ashwin says:

    I’m not exactly sure where you’re going with this idea.

    You don’t explain what dharma is… or are you simply refining some of your previous arguments?

    Ultimately, you never really defined what “righteous” and “unrighteous” was? When is it righteous to use violence and when is it wrong to?

  4. Tathagata Mukherjee says:

    By 1922 he is referring to chouri choura.

  5. Tathagata Mukherjee says:

    This is the Obama Bomb waiting to explode. India will be asked to reward Jehadi terrorism by surrendering Kashmir.

    In the hindsight, loss of NDA in 2004 will prove to be very costly for india and its strategic interest.

    http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20081001faessay87603/barnett-r-rubin-ahmed-rashid/from-great-game-to-grand-bargain.html?mode=print

    Now, media going haywire on Hindu terrrism, army’s involvement without an iota of facts- MUCH WORSE DAYS ARE AHEAD I AM AFRAID.

  6. Tathagata Mukherjee says:

    Yoss: You know why Hindus become violent? Because, for votebank politics, Congress never takes action against perpetrators. Read the recent article by Nitish Sengupta:

    WHY NOT THE GOVT TOOK ACTION AGAINST MISSIONARIES WHO PUBLISHED THE BOOK IN ANDHRA AND KARNATAKA?

  7. yossarin says:

    Ashwin – chk out older posts under the categories “dharma debates” and “flat world hindutva” for a primer 101 onwards

  8. KKumar says:

    Anger in BJP at Kusum for RS

    Nov. 7: Resentment is brewing in the BJP over the nomination of Ms Kusum Rai, Mr Kalyan Singh’s close aide, for the lone Rajya Sabha ticket from Uttar Pradesh.

    The decision was taken late on Wednesday night after Mr Kalyan Singh threatened to quit the BJP and join the Samajwadi Party, a senior BJP leader disclosed. Mr Singh insisted Ms Rai be given the nomination even though the party had offered the same to his son, the leader maintained.

    http://www.asianage.com/presentation/leftnavigation/news/top-story/anger-in-bjp-at-kusum-for-rs.aspx

  9. drummasala says:

    I think this is not a time to fight over what is dharma or what is not dharma. Everybody has his own explanation. We should concentrate how to defeat our enemy. What Arun Shourie is talking may be wrong to you but he is our companion against our enemy. We, the Hindus know that we will not be the first to resort to violence. Ours will always be the reaction.

  10. Ashish says:

    Bottled up HIndu anger has often lead to sporadic, impotent violence in the past. Hindus have to realize that they need a real answer: a government which will lay the truth out in the open instead of appeasing minorities and insulting Hindus and keeping history covered in lies. No government will have the guts to do all of this right away, but with the BJP we have hope. Modi style governance is the promise of the BJP…ie Modi may come on the national scene at some point. Man, we need Modi!! And we need a Hindu news channel!!

  11. blogger says:

    I agree with you Yossarin, it is about choosing between righteousness and adharm in a state of dharm sankat which Arjun had during Shri Geeta Updesh. And Shri Bhagwan showed him the way. Non-violence can’t be a solution to everything nor can be violence. But it is up to us to see that we stand on the side of Dharm because that is where Shri Yogeshwar is, and hence, that is where the victory is. But what can we expect from these communal Anti-Hindu parties which openly call themselves Dharm-Nirpeksh, hence, anti-righteousness. Anyhow, very nice post especially your analogies in the end.

  12. Chandra says:

    Yossarin, (the font in text box is still to small!!)
    You are missing Sri Shourie’s point. The argument is not about violence – good or bad, but it’s about how do you respond to aggressive conversions on one hand and terror on the other. Forgot government – democracy and secularism, as is practiced in the country, are the bane of Hindus at the moment. While you say, it’s not good to play victim card, I’d say what you’re suggesting is even worst – understanding oneself and one dharma is well and fine, but to what effect? To have a Hindu minority in Bharat (or a Hindu of one) with complete understand of all the dharmas.

    For evolution is a false analogy – plenty of species perish all the time in nature including plenty of cultures (ie groups/nations of people). Bharat could maintain its Hindu culture for 4000 years, one, because of geographical separation from aggressive monotheistic cults and, two, because countryside ie villages were mostly cut off from outside world. That is changing as economy grows, due to migration, and because of TV and what not. Also, the aggressive monotheistic cults are targeting specifically the countryside – the weakest link. Convert them and the country is yours. You don’t understand how these guys work – they’re use modern marketing, financial, and sophisticated physiological inputs to make their move – their future lies in Asia and Africa and they know what they are doing. Do we?

    It’s bogus notion that one can survive on one’s inherent strength against aggression without taking defensive actions to protect oneself, however enlightened. What do you think Nehru was doing in the 50s and 60s. Monotheistic cults are worst then the Chinese. In fact China will succumb to them soon enough now as Korea did recently. The west may be going atheist but is still mainly Christianity based. The dreadful muslim lands will continue be so. In the rest of the lands unless one takes defensive action and have aggressive plan to fight back, all this posturing will get you is reduced numbers – as is already happening in significant numbers – and defeat fairly quickly and quick annihilation of that supposed vaulted culture. The aggressors are not stupid to think they are inferior. Don’t mistake high minded for action.

    (It was extremely difficult to type in your comment box – do something, don’t just think “they will see that my way is better.” :) )

  13. gujjuman says:

    I agree with you yossarin.

    But say at particular stage, Can violent response be delivered, such that it is rooted in righteousness? if Yes, How can it be delivered so that it remains righteous?

  14. galeo rhinus says:

    Yossarin,

    1922 – sorry I forgot to parenthesize Chouri Choura.

    When you say all means were righteous to overthrow the English – implicit within that statement is the goal – not the paths that led to that goal.

    So when you take a rigid position about righteous actions and righteous path you are in reality looking at a righteous goal – are you not? Therefore the actions that are a means to a righteous end – rather than an end in itself dcan be viewed as righteous.

    Again – I agree with your stand on these particular events – because they seem to be an end in itself – which cannot be righteous.

    Coming to the goal of overthrowing the English – the goal was to secure political and economic freedom (personal freedom – to a large extent was secured by Tatya Tope’s campaign on November 1, 1859). Political freedom was secured in 1946 – but economic freedom, until today, seems elusive.

    Today – I view that India’s broad goals are to secure economic freedom and eliminate forces that continue to restrict personal and political freedom.

    These – are what I would define as righteous goals. The path to these can be many. For the future – if a need arises to take a position on any events – I would urge you to ask yourself the following question: do these actions serve any of the righteous goals? – before taking a position.

    This – IMO – would eliminate this dichotomy that you face (and also possibly mollify some of your readers who might be unable to resolve these contradictions).

  15. reason says:

    “No People or Civilization can achieve greatness who are trapped in the self defeatist mindset of victimhood.”

    An abhorrent dislike for ‘victimhood’ should not prevent you from recognizing that you are getting screwed, when you are getting screwed. There are times when you really get victimized. If your intellectual dislike for ‘victimhood’ hoists a ego on you and prevents you from recognizing that, your survival is in trouble.

    I ofcourse recognize the ‘marketing of victimhood’ of the Vatican variety or the ‘Jews did 9/11′ variety. But asking a people who were getting screwed for centuries by Islamic hordes to ‘acquire a Islamic body’ is not marketing of victimhood. Only Samurai can argue that way in the known universe.

    I would say Arjun was trapped in victimhood when he refused to fight, and was got out of it by the Lord.

  16. fir-e-brand says:

    splendid stuff yossarin!!!!

  17. yossarin says:

    Reason – My friend you are really screwed up, pun unintended :) i dont believe india has been screwed by Islamic hordes for centuries. Yes some parts of India were ruled by foreigners and look how screwed up those you call “islamic hordes” ended up being – pakistan, afghanistan, bangladesh….
    Its a fatally flawed mindset that imagines and suffers persecution perpetually. Thats the Muslim Vote Bank for you constantly reliving Babri and Gujarat 2002. Is that how you want to view yourself, trapped in the time warp of history, unable to draw confidence from what u have really achieved.

    Chandra – trying my best to fix the font issue pls bear. On ur comment it is for Hindu civil society to preserve its way of life and that wont happen by indulging in acts that are 180 degrees opposite to that way of life. There is only one way to arrest the missionary menace – it is thru governance. spread the gujarat model.

    Galeo – thx for reposting ur comment. will respond in detail later, had addressed in this dharma 201 i think.

  18. reason says:

    “i dont believe india has been screwed by Islamic hordes for centuries. Yes some parts of India were ruled by foreigners and look how screwed up those you call “islamic hordes” ended up being – pakistan, afghanistan, bangladesh….”

    You spot a contradiction here?

  19. Chandra says:

    “it is thru governance. spread the gujarat model.”

    This is true – but only partially. The assault is not just wealth/poverty based – although it’s an easy target, it is pop-perception based and it is ultimately culture based. One needs aggressive counter actions beyond good governance and wealth creation.

  20. yossarin says:

    Flat World Hindutva

  21. yossarin says:

    Reason – no contradiction, they didnt screw us up, they screwed themselves up. In any case we cannot conduct this debate with crude generalizations like “screwed up”, suggest you be specific on what you mean by screwed up.

  22. krishna says:

    Here is LKA in a similar vein:

    http://www.dailypioneer.com/126929/Politics-of-reaching-out.html

    Begin quote:

    At this juncture, the BJP’s senior leader and prime ministerial candidate, LK Advani, decided to step into the breach. Over the past week, he has taken two steps, both of which may be small for others but giant leaps when coming from a BJP chief. On October 1, in Nagpur, he made a historic distinction between Islam and the perception that it fuels terrorism, saying that even if some people quote portions of the Quran in their hate mails, these should be dismissed as only the al-Qaeda’s interpretation of Islam. In fact, what the national media also forgot to add in the odd report was Advani’s observation that if sections of the Quran could be termed as menacing, then Hindu texts are just as guilty.

    End quote.

    If this is his level of knowledge in these matters, we should be really worried.

  23. Vikas says:

    Yossarin,

    I think this is my second time that I am disagreeing with your contention of “professed victim hood” on the part of Hindutvavadis. The first time I protested I received a good amount of censuring. But I am still not convinced about the criticism of this “professed victmhood” by Hindutvavadis. I find it almost irritating that there is an absence of the recognition of the siege which Hindu society finds itself in today. This to me is the classic neck in sand Ostrich act. Actually the vote bank explanation is an inadequate justification for the concerted, planned and well orchestrated attacks by the “secularists” on Hindus and Hindutva movement.

    Actually I find the attempt to hyphenate Hindu victimhood with Islamic victimhood a gross simplification and even an attempt to prevaricate. The two merit serious examination. Is Islamic victim hood not a manufactured device to further the designs which can no longer be carried with the cavalier decisiveness of medieval times? Is Hindu victim hood not a genuine grievance? Should it be bad only because Muslims have professed it as a design?

    Secondly, I fail to understand the internalisation of this comforting thought that “we” have somehow survived the imperialist onslaughts of the semitic religions for so long. Why do we fail to recognise that there are vast geographical parts of the erstwhile Hindu Bharat where no one is even left to reflect on such profundities? It is only those of us who have been spared the threat of Jihad Bil Saif or the lucre of proselytisation that remain ensconced in this comforting delusion.

  24. YB says:

    Yoss thank you for a well written post. However although It has a great literary and intellectual substance. but as far as looking at it in the light of malegaon, the post seems like hairsplitting . I agree with drummasala’s 9th post completely.

    just like republicans in US, in this time when our security is threatened, we must devote all our energy in uniting and defending our own people (Mr. Shourie) rather then correcting them for minor differences. I wish you would have written this exact post but infact in support of Mr. Shourie’s point of view, as an extension of what he was saying rather than in opposition to what he was saying.

    Never the less a great post. Thank you again.

  25. Dhananjay says:

    YOSS:

    Very well said.

    The intellectual & time investment you make in writing thought provoking articles for this blog is incredible, even more so if Journalism is not your full time profession.

    Keep it up.

  26. Kedar says:

    I believe in what yoss boss is saying– it is not for us to act on our own as indivudual citizens to attempt to correct the situation, in our own way. Jews are an example to emulate in such a scenario– they created a situation where the polity, media, and the corporate worlds are under their command. We should believe in our ability and grow to such an extent that media and polity become our tools in implementing dharma.

    This is actually what the delicate art of anvikshaki,described by Kautilya says– use your brain and turn the situation in your favour. There have been two teacher-student pairs who have successfully utilised this science in our history– the first if of course Chanakya-Chandragupta pair, and second one is Samarth Ramdas Swami-Chhatrapati Shivaji pair. Of course, they used violence and killed people in process, but they never disregarded the law of the land. It must always be respected in all circumstances, else, a wrong precedent would be set for future generations.

  27. Bharat says:

    Activists of Lok Jagaran Mancha during a protest rally against terrorism in Guwahati.

    http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_express_gallery.php?id=161

    Their Posters says: Pseudo Secularism Breed Jihadi Terrorism

    Does Congress see the writings? Congress govt is Aom, still shy of using the word Jihadi. My appeal to HIndus and all patriots, don’t dream to get justice from Congress.

    Congress is part of the Jihadi terror problem. Untill Congress goes, Jihadi terror will not go. Remove Congress, Save Bharat.

  28. Shaan says:

    Regarding Gandhi and his views on Geeta, I have some interesting comments made by Osho. The following are extracted from the book “Krishna – The man and his philosophy”.

    “Gandhi calls the Geeta his mother, and yet he cannot absorb it, because his creed of non-violence conflicts with the grim inevitability of war as seen in the Geeta…

  29. Bharat says:

    Shri LK Advani website: http://www.lkadvani.in/

    Let we all join hands to greet Shri LK Advani, Prime Ministerial Candidate BJP-NDA 2009, on the occasion of his 81st birthday on 8 November.

    Janamdin ki Hardik Subhkamayeen!
    Wish you a Very Happy Birthday, and Long and Healthy Life.

    Bharat
    =====

  30. galeo rhinus says:

    Kedar @27

    I acknowledge your point about learning from historic Indian leaders – however, I differ on your suggestions to learn from Jewish history. I think it boxes India in a completely incorrect paradigm. India today, remains the *only* living civilization in the world. Not Rome, nor Greece, not China nor Japan, not Europe or any country has maintained this unbroken continuity between the land, its people, its culture and society.

    This unbroken continuity was never achieved by emulating ideas that counter the basic Indic tenets. Yossarin has attempted to argue them in his “dharma” series here.

    Let’s look to our own past for answers rather than be hasty in looking at the successes of others who have never proved their longevity.

  31. Kedar says:

    galeo rhinus:
    Well… the science of Anvikshaki is Indian, and so are Chanakya, Chandragupta, Samarth Ramdas, and Shivaji. I am purely taking out examples from our past. All I am saying is Jews used this science well and that has placed them well in international politics.

  32. polite says:

    A very well written article!

    A lot has been said about Dharma versus Adharma, and there is no shortage of pseudos in India to deliberately try to mislead the majority community. For example, the proponents of Ahimsa Parama Dharma, who either intentionally, or through half knowledge, drop the second part of the phrase “Dharma Himsa Tathai Va Cha”.

    When you have a situation of the majority community having been victimised by the rulers over hundreds of years, what do you expect? It is one thing to expect colonisers and marauders to treat the local population with disdain, but when a supposedly elected Government closes its eyes to its duties towards the majority, is it illogical for a few members to react violently? In the same situation, different individuals react differently, so, can you generalise something as a Hindu Terror when you have been most vocal about terrorists having no religion?

    The methods employed by Mahatma Gandhi worked in the given situation, for the colonisers had a democratic set up back home. I am sure that Gandhiji has been the best strategist known to mankind simply because he was successful against such odds. To me, he was the inventor of SWOT analysis, both for the rulers and the ruled. I am reasonably confident that his kind of methods would not have been successful against marauders like Tamer Lane and Nadir Shah. And let us not question Gandhiji’s intelligence by suggesting that he would have championed the cause of non violence against such marauders.

    The fact remains that India has been unfortunate to see the birth of the maximum number of traitors for any given country, and the have made their presence amongst the rulers and the media. This is a battle that is to be fought in the mind by creating awareness.

    I expect that we should do a SWOT analysis of the people and organisations that work for and against the nation and come up with a strategy to involve the general public, so successfully demonstrated by Gandhiji.

    If there has ever been a time to lend a helping hand to Bharat Mata, it is now.

    Jai Hind!

  33. blr_p says:

    Yoss

    An interesting post, agreed with your postion on ‘victimhood’.

    It reeks of a chip on the shoulder when minorities speak of it and in some cases its justified but i think it gets abused more often than not. But to read about the same by the ‘majority’ as many posters here claim, that too when we live in an ‘independent’ country smacks of a massive inferiority complex if anything else. Ofc the cynic would say that instead the motive is nothing more than a lame ploy for more ‘cultural’ nationalism via the backdoor.

    So yes, in trying to counter extremists we end up mimmicking their own methods and lowering ourselves in the process.

    I’m curious as to the motivations for your post.

    A feeling perhaps that the intel officer might be guilty ?

    ..and that ‘revenge’ on an individual level is NOT the answer.

    would really be great if there was a preview feature available whilst one was composing a reply, helps spot typos as well as malformed HTML tags

  34. counterview says:

    Yoss boss, with due respect , are you a congress follower converted to bjp? This is the age old crap that the congress has been feeding the Hindus. You stay calm. You stay non-violent. You look the other way when we dole out subsidies to the minorities. 60 years of patience and generosity of the Hindus has been been rewarded with insults and terrorist attacks. Now someone has got the guts to question that and you are questioning their methods? “It takes a loud voice to make the deaf hear, with these immortal words uttered on a similar occasion by Valiant, a French anarchist martyr, do we strongly justify this action of ours.” So said Bhagat Singh.

  35. reason says:

    Shri Advani at a rally -
    “Thus, the people of India are feeling unsafe and insecure on every count.

    This feeling of insecurity can be removed only by bringing the BJP to power, both at the Centre and in the state.”

    I agree with the first, though may not be with the generalization – I do not think a bomb blast in Bombay makes people at remote Kallupatti feel any less or more secure.

    I do not necessarily agree with the second. At this stage to me, bringing a party back to power is not the issue really.

    A web site is good. But the assumption that it is the way to reach a hundred million new voters – ignores that 90% or more of those new voters may not get anywhere close to a computer. And I would also note the mindset that uses ‘100 million’ instead of ‘10 crores’, but I guess we are way beyond those now.

    Anyways, good luck with the project.

  36. Aam Insaan says:

    Dharma is not ‘Righteousness’, it’s Truth & Wisdom…Adharma is ignorance, there are no ‘Paap’ & ‘Puniya’ in our original Hindu science, it’s plain Wisdom or ignorance…bondage or freedom!

    “Swami Vivekananda, for instance, while asking the Hindus to retain their Hindu soul, exhorted them to acquire an ‘Islamic body’.”

    – Islam followers are very much true to their religion, their adherence to the word of their prophet & love for him is unflinching & one-pointed with total faith, they put actual life long practical hardwork towards bravely acheiving their religious goals as precribed even at the cost of their lives…this is probably what the Great Vivekananda must have meant as the ‘Islamic body’

  37. The author misses important points, omission of which results in dangerous sophistry

    What is Dharma indeed becomes subjective if one use’s the interpretations of Tilak and Gandhi to justify one’s actions.

    Dharma stands for universal values. As long as actions are motivated by noble impulses (pro life, pro happiness, pro choice) and are in the interest of maximum people, it can be deemed Dharmic.

    The issue of violence against totalitarian ideologies of church and mosque. Spirit of Gita is distinctly clear on what one should do when faced with an evil that has the power of arms. And this spirit is in consonance with Tilak, not Gandhi. This is what Mr. Arun Shourie alluded.

    And Vivekananda’s islamic body idea suggests that Hindu should be socially conscious and should organize Himself. This does not mean there is no space for Dharma as the author wrongly asserts.

  38. Indian Media Zoom says:

    The author misses important points, omission of which result in dangerous sophistry.

    What is Dharma indeed becomes subjective if one uses different interpretations of Tilak and Gandhi to justify one’s actions.

    Dharma stands for universal values. As long as actions are motivated by noble impulses (pro life, pro happiness, pro choice) and are in the interest of maximum people, actions can be deemed Dharmic.

    The issue of violence against totalitarian ideologies of church and mosque. Spirit of Gita is distinctly clear on what one should do when faced with an evil that has the power of arms. And this spirit is in consonance with Tilak, not Gandhi. This is what Mr. Arun Shourie alluded.

    And Vivekananda’s islamic body idea suggests that Hindu should be socially conscious and should organize Himself. This does not mean there is no space for Dharma as the author wrongly asserts.

  39. [...] of upholding the Dharma.  This latter part has been captured rather well by Offstumped in its rebuttal to Arun Shourie’s take on Hindutva and Radical [...]

  40. [...] thought in an Islamic body. This line of thought has been critiqued extensively by this blogger before. It suffices to say that Just as Rajadharma as articulated over the Centuries was the Constitution [...]

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How to Challenge Left Liberalism

Full Transcript of Center Right Townhall Event on 14th March 2010 at 7pm IST, can be found here.

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