Well the bad news has finally been delivered.
Ratan Tata blamed Mamata Bannerjee, thanked Buddhadeb Bhattacharjee regretted it was the Puja season but nevertheless decided to pull the Nano Project out of Singur.
On re-location, Ratan Tata said that they are in talks with 3-4 state governments and that it would be in-appropriate to make any statement today.
He specified that Tata Motors was not involved in the land dispute and that it was a matter between the government of West Bengal and the opposition. He re-iterated during the press statement that he was pulling out of the state primarily because of the intransigence of the TMC and that this decision was in no way reflective of the investment climate in the state.
Much will be written and said in the days to come on the Singur fiasco. Most post-mortem analyses?will rue the delay in the Nano Project, loathe the Mamata Bannerjee brand of politics and lament Bengal’s fate.
But all of them would miss a fundamental problem with Bengal if they continue to be in denial that Business Leaders like Ratan Tata have failed to foster the brand of politics India in general and Bengal in particular needs.
To quote Offstumped from 26th December 2006 when the Singur issue first flared up
As far as the Tata’s go Offstumped has few tears for them. In fact Offstumped does not believe in bearing the water of Free Market economics for the Indian Business Houses. They have done little to further the cause of Free Market Economics in India. They have cut deals on all sides of the political divide based on convenience. Having done little to further the cause of Economic Freedom by working to support and sustan a political movement dedicated to its cause the Indian Business Houses should have no expectations of support when the politics gets to be inconvenient to them. So Offstumped’s message to the Businesses is
“Far too long have you supped with the devil to expect us to come to your aid. Demonstrate your commitment to economic freedom by supporting Right of Center Politics and only then expect the nationa at large to come to your aid”.
?
Filed under: Lok Sabha Polls 2008-2009, betrayal of aam admi
Parties like CPM & BJP which play a double game with the National Interests of the country – ultimately get a taste of their own medicine !
Unfortunately it is the people of the counrty who end up paying the price for their misdeeds…
Congress is the only sustainable political alternative for this counrty – to keep up its economic reforms, inclusive development and protect the secular social fabric of the society.
Ultimately, the people will reject parties like BJP & CPM !!
Ha HA HA HA….Row ha ha ha ha aha ha , boy you have a sense of humour. Did you know in the Armoda glaxy, two stars are being sucked by a dead star, in many millions years those stars would be sucked by the black star….and guess who is to be blame for that!!!!!!!!!!! The BJPPPPPPPP
wow finally I got it.
Thanks,
Comments 1: Slaves like you only sustaining Congress monarchy, now run by white-skined Europeans who invaded and colonised our nation for 200 years. Do you not feel shame to worship monarchy? What is less in you? Try to see, you have the potential to become leaders and rule the nation. Come out of mental slavery, realise your own potential. We can see, you have great potentiality.
MB got it wrong ‘again’.
I am not sorry for her, perhaps she deserved this.
PI.
I agree with you on the grounds that truely the CPM is not to be sympathised with. They really donot have a very favourable attitude toward induatralization. Living in Bengal I know this more than any one else. But I do not agree with your opinion of the Tata business house. I believe in their transparency. I have seen Jamshedpur and it is a success story. I also donot believe that Mamata Banerjee can be hailed as a saviour. I consider her to be a foolish politician. Foolhardy aand headstrong as she is, this is only a way of trying to gain political mileage.
After the recent fiasco with Metro Cash and Carry I think there is no doubt that the Left is really not letting go of its bandh and ruffian brand of politics in West bengal.
I am being evil here!! Ratan Tata is going to meet Narendra Modi for Nano Project!!
This a good day for India.
It says that those whose actions and principles / values are not in sync (CPM / CPI preaching communism & begging businesses to come in) stand to loose and be exposed in the end.
When will the WB govt put the complete agreement between them and Tata on their website? I am eager to see it. May be to preempt it Ratan Tata has launched an attack on Mamta and praised Buddha.
By attacking a political leader and taking sides in the dirty politics of the state, Ratan Tata has done injustice to lakhs of Tata group share holders. Now Mamta will see to that no Tata projects take off in WB. After all if it is not Tata there are the Ambanis, Mittals, etc, etc to invest in the state but Tata will lose out in competitive areas like retail.
The deal between Tata and WB was not so clean, it seems as per the agreement WB govt has to give certain crores of rupees for less than 1 percent interest and if it fails to arrange the money the govt has to pay Tata 1.5 times the market interest for the money. I dont know if it is true but if it is true it is too bad. The govt may be desperate to attract investment and promise such incentives, but don’t the Tatas have ethics? If the deal was so clean the Tatas should withdraw their petition filed against making the deal public.
By venting his anger against Mamta, Tata may appeal to the educated middle class Indians but it will not make any impact on the opinions of the poor who are the people who really stand in queue and vote.
What a looser we got in Buddhababu. What didn’t I do for him? I projected him as a national leader and CM per excellence on my channel. I offered him interviews on my prime time. I even stopped covering and asking question about Nandigram genocide. On Prakash’s personal request I made him the Best CM in India snubbing that goonda from Gujarat. And now this gray-haired old hag chickened out tamely for loosing out rural votes. He could have used cadre force if necessary to hold on to Tata. What a pathetic looser! Now Tata is gone coupled with all those rural votes out of his hand.
That lady is grabbing 18-20 seats in 09 LS, mark my words. Need to advice Digvijayji and Sibalji to act quickly to take her into our fold. Otherwise the original crook of the thugs party will convince the lady. I heard from Mazumdar that the crook is keeping low in Bengal for the opportunity of post-poll. If she doesn’t budge and thugs party can’t form the government, the second-in-command will unleash his rabid fanatism in Bengal to polarize Hindu votes.
If ratan tata has not supported right of center politics, perhaps he should also be clubbed with overground terrorist supporters?
Sirdesai
Between i liked your passionate plea for an Amerikan style debatefor the forthcoming desi elections.I think a choreographed debate in which you can specatacularly contrast the godly qualities of Saint Sonia (the supreme sacrificer,glorious guiding light of ugly heathensand pagans ,lady bountiful who gives unwashed masses food for work) with that fascist,rascist tendencies of Karachi born thug who is probably reason for the every genocide/pogrom/massacre that happens in this country
Also when is the next installment of your “Face the Nation ” poll that you usually stage along with you in-house SuperPsephologist and that bakra whatever his name from ISI,Kolkatta
Please pass on my appreciation to Madame Ghose for penning that wonderful piece on terrorism in India.Yes only 700 pagans died .1.3 billion minus 700 is mathematically insigniciant .The urban upper class ,Upper caste elite is harbouring huge delusions about the value of its own life
Prasanna
That’s not sardesai….
Dhananjay,
I have similar feelings.
This might be a disaster for West Bengal’s development. But there’s a silver lining.
This withdrawal by Tata will teach India’s states the following lessons:
1. Maintenance of law and order is a prerequisite for attracting investment. This includes making sure that naxalite influence is controlled and minimized on a priority basis and that mob violence is dealth with strongly.
2. The culture of bandhs and strikes is a thing of the past. People who still stick to the old methods stand to lose. Singur has shown that. Not just Singur but the entire population of Bengal stand to lose because of this culture.
3. The states and the centre will be encouraged to chart out clear, fair and unambiguous land acquisition policies.
4. Most importantly, it will drive home the importance of securing the Right to Property – if the debate is in these terms. For that to happen, those who are for individual freedom and free markets must raise their voice, act and spread the word on the Right to Property retaining its position as a Fundamental Right in the Constitution.
A sad day for Bengal, but it couldn’t have been any other way with commies and Mamata in WB.
Vote BJP in West Bengal, it is the only hope.
Again,
I am going to be a devils advocate. I think what we are seeing here is a larger issue of land ownership and land grants. There are plenty of cases where the government is seizing land to give it toi big industrialists and western companies (though Tata might be an exception).
This is not just with farmers i.e., recent case in Maharashtra where Hindu organizations are protesting vehemently; but also forests such as the strip mine culture of many MNCs that they are employing in traditional tribal land.
Again this is one of those grey issues where the issue has been obfuscated by politics, pathertic superficial media(that is just not addressing the core issues) and vested interests who don’t want this to surface.
This is also one of the reasons for the alarming growth of Naxals (with a little bit of help from China and others).
Methinks we should lay bare the real issues, not go the black and white path of the absolutely imbecilic Indian media.
A perspective on India’s aggressive liberalisation
http://portraitofindia.com/liberal1.htm
People of Bengal and the WB Govt (led by Buddha) today suffer this Nano exit, utimately for the grave mistke of one person – Parkash Karat !
His decision to withdraw support from the Congress-led UPA Govt – though did not not stop Manmohan Singh them from sealing the N-deal, but defineltly prevented a stong Central Govt and Congress intervention to support the WB Govt over the Singure dispute and see the Nano project through !
BUDDHADEB AND BENGAL CPM WILL NOW NEED TO REVIEW THE FOOLISH POLICIES OF PRAKASH KARAT IF THEY SINCERELY HOPE TO TURN AROUND THE SITUATION IN WB. THEY NEED THE CONGRESS MORE THAN THE CONGRESS NEEDS THEM…
ALSO, LOOK OUT FOR THE SNUB BJP GETS FOR OPPOSING THE N-DEAL AND ENDING UP LOOKING LIKE A PARTNER OF PAKISTAN & CHINA IN THEIR HUMILIATING DEFEAT !
I had written quite sometime back on the entire issue of trying to prop up factories on fertile land. Here of course Mamata overplayed her hand; the Left may try to pin all the blame on her but I think the voters will decide otherwise next year – especially in rural West Bengal.
There is another trouble brewing in West Bengal on land acquisition by the Government – on behalf of DLF and Salim Group for their townships in and around Kolkata. The Government is acquiring land, it seems, at X and selling the same land at 7X to the builders of the townships.
Singur is what happens when the Government tries to behave like a commission agent.
If the Singur fiasco results in the removal or massive erosion of the Leftists in West Bengal then it will be a battle well fought. But Mamata needs to utilise realpolitik better next time.
Yossarin,
The Congress-led Govt has done a very bad deal at the cost of the country’s sovereignty and nuclear independence. “The government has gone for a blind trap knowingly and can’t get out of it. We have acceded to the nuclear non-proliferation regime with the Indo-US nuclear deal,” BJP spokesperson Rajiv Pratap Rudy said.
IN THIS CONEXT, IT SURPRISING TO SEE THAT YOU HAVE NOT YET POSTED ANY BLOG ON SUCH A MAJOR BLUNDER COMMITED BY MANMOHAN SINGH – THE WEAKEST PRIME MINISTER THIS COUNTRY HAS EVER HAD…
Dear PI,
U r wrong in assesment. Mamata does what she want. She want to capture the rural vote bank, which is in fully detress under CPIM rule due to shortage of power, water and good road. But they had sympathy to CPIM due to land reform. Now mamta can show that only she is in their favor. As a matter of fact city middle class started to difting away from mamta in last two election due to propaganda of industilizaion of CPIM.
Question will come, does the rural people want to do only farm job? Answer, absolutely No, however they will not give up land easily since this is the only source of income and resource to educate child, who then will move to other job. At last farmer will sell his land.
Dear Atlantean
I do hope this problem will bring the attention towards the issue which you have metioned. I think some of them already making noise in power coridor in Delhi. This is the brightest outcome of the singur problem along with Bengal loss in short term.
Dear madhumita,
I agree upto certain extent about Mamta, But does she any worse than CPIM which have destroyed golden bengal to waste land. We bengali need a change even if it is worse than CPIM. The cleaneseing of five years of bengal ruled by other party will reduce, at least, the involvement of CPIM in personal life of people, which is most important to flourish the talent in bengal. U may say Mamta’s party will do similar to CPIM, so keep CPIM since it is well organised. But change is necessary to get back the democracy in bengal, whatever may be the outcome of that change. It is seem to natural the mamta party will not the similar to CPIM’s involvement in personal life since it is rooted in Congress back ground
Dear schaterjee,
WB BJP is the worse party in beganl, run by retired people and small time selfish man who does not have any political ambition, that is why it is deteriating day by day. We need good people learned in RSS schools, but bengal has lower penetration by them. So we have to wait long time and that time bengal become an gone case.
RoW,
Congress can not do anything to mamta even if CPIM and they were together because Mamta will not listen to then and go by her own instinct. I firmly beleive that CPIM and Congress is coming to hold hand together after next election if they see the oppertunity to form a government. Pranab Mukherjee is going to be the middle man to do the same. CPIm will give covert help him to win his loksabha seat by making party worker inactive.
That is why Mamta is keeping distance to congress and still part of NDA. Although congress and Mamta is needed to come together to uproot CPIM from bengal since they are strong in north and south bengal respectively. But does the central leadership care about it, especially leader from other state of India where CPIM is not strong. They are keeping away congress supremo to making any alliance with Mamta since they need power and care only there home state where they do not have tp face CPIM, example is Kamalnath, Digvijoy sing etc.
Malay,
You may be right in your assesment of the likely political alignments in Bengal.
Congress may improve its seats after the next assembly elections but it can only provide support to either TC or CPM to form a Govt in Bengal – with a quid pro quo reverse deal at the Centre ! While the Bengal CPM leaders are more trustworthy than Mamata – but for a tie-up between CPM amd Congress to happen, CPM would first need to shed their “laibility” called Prakash Karat.
Manmohan Singh has sealed his place in Congress, UPA and the country. He is honest, non-controvertial and has shown his determination and resolve to achieve what he belives in. Those who have a personality clash with him (Prakash Karat and L.K.Advani) are licking their wounds today.
Buddha can be rescued only by Manmohan Singh under the current circumstances !!
Dear RoW,
congress is almost finished in Bengal due to central leadership including Monmohan Singh attitude towards CPIM. PM has enough time to priase CM Buddha, but not a encouraging word for local congress cadre who has to fight hard with CPIM to party alive in some pocket, such as north bengal. But south bengal has seen enough to Congress. I think congress will be finished from bengal If it come again with CPIM, and the vacant space will be filled by BJP, enemy of congress.
I do not feel Monmoham is a good PM who has compromised in all issues relevent to national interest to stay in power. All coalition are running their portfolio as a personal property. No coherance in policy, so we can see drifting away phenomena in every field from economy to political management.
Good job by TATA!! High time he quit WB and other commie-ruled states.
This move sets precedent for other industrialists to identify industrial-friendly states and avoid states where they may face similar hostility.
I don’t like Mamata, but in this case, I support her, since she exposed double standards of Bhadralok who wanted industrial renaissance in their state, at the cost of opposing similar and other economic reforms across the nation!!
At the same time, I was shocked even more when a friend of mine shared details of agreement between WB govt and TATA. Soft loans @ 1% interest, subsidized power and what not! Is this how the Indian middle class wants to drive the cheapest car on earth? By snatching land from farmers, by getting subsidies which may otherwise be used for public service??
CPM is too well-entrenched in Bengal. A lot of people have used the CPM’s power and influence to get government jobs, permits, this or that concession that a lot of people have some stake in the CPM system. So they can do whatever they want, and even though many would hate it, someone in their family has benefited from them – and they end up voting CPM in the end.
When that is not the case, CPM is too powerful in villages for anyone to dare vote against them. You will be isolated and often beaten up and threatened. No chance at all.
Unfortunately, Bengal would break out of this only if they get President’s rule for 5 years or 10. But Congress at the center needs a very strong reason for that, to alienate their future ally. Even BJP could not find a reason to do it after 5 years in power.
So, WB is jacked.
Congress is not at all finished in Bengal.. far from it is definitely going to improve its tally after this Singur fiasco in Urban Bengal. On the other side BJP has no hope in hell and is going to get wiped out completely…
That leaves either CPM or TC to lead the next WB Govt with Congress back it from behind !
The only hope for Buddha will now be to come with a begging bowl, if necessary, to Manmohan Singh to seek his support and blessings…
I think, the ruling party in West Bengal had no clue on how to handle Mamata Banerjee and her crowds.
Some 17 years ago, here in Pune, a union leader staged a very long drawn out strike against Tata Motors – then Telco. It continued for several months. Ratan Tata did not budge & declared a lock out.
There were stabbings & attacks on Telco officials when they would go on a morning walk.
Finally, the union called for a meeting at the Shaniwarwada – a prominent landmark in the City and converted it to an indefinite Fast. The union goons surrounded the striking workers and prevented them from going back after the protest meeting.
The state government watched the strike all along and when enough was enough, in a dawn swoop bundled up all the fasting workers and their leaders – some 500 odd people into jails across Maharashtra. The strike was over on that day.
Since then there had hardly been any unreasonable protests and such activities in the entire industrial belt around Pune or for that matter Maharashtra.
The state has to be seen as acting effectively when it’s authority is challanged.
I think, the Communists were helpless against the use of their own weapon of mass protests. The government, must use all the means at its disposal to ensure order. I guess, the WB government was guilty of aquiring land using unscrupulous means, beacuse of which they had no convincing counter arguments to Ms. Banerjee.
CPM’s past on the militant activities would haunt them as far as their new found drive for industrialization in WB is concerned.
Good for Tatas. Personally I’d prefer them moving to Himachal Pradesh or Uttaranchal (Gujarat has a lot of projects, let other states also get some share lol).
“Finally, the union called for a meeting at the Shaniwarwada – a prominent landmark in the City and converted it to an indefinite Fast. The union goons surrounded the striking workers and prevented them from going back after the protest meeting.”
Good job by Maharashtra govt. But I do believe voluntary workers unions have a useful purpose in civil society and banning them outright is sheer stupidity.
The Left seems to have dug its own grave. Expect a resurgence of BJP in the next 10 years from the backlash. Shyama Prasad Mukherjee must be turning in his grave.
Frankly, I think the Nano is a messed up concept.The public cost will far outweighs the private cost. Imagine
- Choked roads where the cars will move slower than walking
- Massive raise in oil deficit (and this tata is very much part of Big Oil )
- Massive pollution
- Unemployed rickshawwallahs, taxi wallhas and what not
What India needs is good solid mass transportation. I would be grateful to Tata for bring innovation there (Another local train line in Mumbai would work wonders)
The other question I would like to ask this Tata (who Indians view with rose tinted glasses due to the residual goodwill of his predessesors) – Why the hell arn’t they releasing the MDI Cat Car?
Infact I am sure that they will kill the Cat Car. This is just like the automobile folks killed public transportation in LA many years ago (they bought it over and let it die ). Tata is doing the same with MDI CAT Car. He has bought the technology and is letting it die a quiet death so that it does not affect big oil which our man is very much a part of.
http://www.theaircar.com/
Being the libertarian that I am, I have to say car ownership is a far better option than having to rely on the guvrnmand for a mass-transit. Maybe they can coexist.
And people who see roads will choke congestion blah blah blah I have only one thing to say – necessity is the mother of invention. As Indians (atleast it’s true for me and many others I know of) when there’s a problem we don’t address it UNLESS it REQUIRES ALMOST IMMEDIATE ACTION. So hopefully lots of people will own NANO and form a “base” that would lobby and put pressure on the guvrnmand for better roads and infrastructure.
“Unemployed rickshawwallahs, taxi wallhas and what not”
This is similar to the argument commies made when there was bank automation in India. People will lose jobs by hundreds blah blah blah. Then guess what — nothing like that happened, only productivity of banks increased.
By the way how will roads still be choked even when there are fewer taxis and rickshaws??
“The other question I would like to ask this Tata (who Indians view with rose tinted glasses due to the residual goodwill of his predessesors)”
Wrong premise. Tatas are revered as an institution not jus one man JRD. And in my view and many people’s views Ratan Tata by maintaining that image of Tata has earned that respect and deserves it. Anyways, NANO is a gr8 concept and hats off to Ratan Tata.
Not to mention most of our “oil” is used for cooking gas and kerosene and that used in transportation is miniscule. The only way to get outof the huge debt burden that guvrnmand has is to remove the subsidies on oil.
Now why does guvrnmand give subsidies on one hand and impose taxes on oil on the other? I mean it doesn’t make any sense. Somebody is probably pilfering at both the ends. Instead why not let the market work and decide what the prices are gonna be?
“I would be grateful to Tata for bring innovation there”
Tatas can’t do anything and everything. Why don’t you give a hand and try?
With a population of 1.1 billion, wider roads will mean the entire country. We just don’t have the space. There is a reason why the Japanese have perfected mass transportation. Densly populated countries cannot afford every Tom, Dick and Harry riding a car.
I can also throw a lot of concepts around “libertarian” blah blah (do you also believe in keeping gold at home), but practicality is something else. Invisible hand is not perfect. I bet you belive that Global warming will work itself out.
Just as you have a right to support the Nano, I would ask Tata why he did not push the CAT car which is much more economic and causes significantly less pollution.
I am amazed at how environmental and societal causes have been hijacked by the left while the so called Hindu groups tout extreme capitalism and individualism. This is completely contrary to the principles of vedic religion which are to exist in harmony with nature and society as a whole. Decisions have to be made keeping in mind impact on environment. The Nano is a bad decision. It is like giving an icecream to a diabetic patient who does not have the insulin (infratsructure, roads, space, oil resources et al)
“Densly populated countries cannot afford every Tom, Dick and Harry riding a car.”
Why not? It has worked in the US or you don’t consider US to be “densely populated” with 300 million mostly living along Western and Eastern seaboards. Malthusian argument.
“I am amazed at how environmental and societal causes have been hijacked by the left while the so called Hindu groups tout extreme capitalism and individualism. This is completely contrary to the principles of vedic religion which are to exist in harmony with nature and society as a whole.”
Yeah if nothing else works come up with your own view of Vedic religion. Individualism is very much a part of Vedic religion. What is “aham brahmasmi”?? By the way individualism and living in harmony with nature should not be contradictory but complementary. Go figure. Ancient India was hardly socialist and extremely capitalist, in fact free-market capitalism. Of course, our History textbooks contain total BS since they are written by our Marxist brethren, and somehow portray that it was socialist or “plagued” by evil casteism.
“There is a reason why the Japanese have perfected mass transportation. Densly populated countries cannot afford every Tom, Dick and Harry riding a car.”
Please. Japanese model esply their economic model is a very flawed one. Plus for any country to succeed suburbs are equally important and also have to develop. In my view there is too much population (as a %age) concentrated in Tokyo and that is not the case with any metropolis in India. By the way have you viewed any of the You tube videos where the Japanese try to get into a train. If not, you should. They are quite funny. I’d rather wait at a traffic jam than boarding one of those trains.
“It is like giving an icecream to a diabetic patient who does not have the insulin (infratsructure, roads, space, oil resources et al)”
Wrong analogy. It is giving insulin yo a diabetic patient.
“I can also throw a lot of concepts around “libertarian” blah blah (do you also believe in keeping gold at home)”
Feel free to throw whatever u want. Btw asset (not paper) backed currency is going to be a reality whether you like it or not. I hope u r not naive enough to believe in the invincibility of “King Dollar” esply. with current economic and financial crisis in US. Jus 40 years b4 you could exchange dollar for gold, I hope u know that.
And reg. global warming didn’t a couple of scientists from Sweden who were in the IPCC come and say that there is SCANT ENOUGH evidence to SHOW HUMANS ACTUALLY CAUSE IT. Regardless, India’s carbon footprint is way less than US or China and Nano aint gonna change it any significantly. I seriously think some of the tree-huggers and environmentalist just hate any progress. Being elites, they want poor people to remain poor and just don’t want them to get to middle class which is what free market capitalism helps achieve.
<>
)) I bet you live in the US and support Pat Robertson er Sarah Palin.
I think the above statement itself says it all.
<<>
Really, just simple math will tell you 1.1 bn in 1/3 the area vs. 300 mn. We are talking ~ 10 times the density of population. India also has urban congestion (beyond what the US has) so congestion is hardly matter
Aham Brahmasi means individualism!!! Have you read any of the ancient texts? Also, talk to our Gurus “Sri Sri”, “Amma” etc. decisions in harmony with nature are key to the vedic religion
Btn, TOI is reporting “Nano will be made in Ahmedabad”.
Ratan Tata said in Vibrant Gujarat 2007 “You are stupid if you are not in Gujarat”.
I guess everyone knows the story of parsis who came to India after Iran was invaded by Islamic arab barbarians. Let me just put in couple of lines here…..
Parsis came to Gujarat in 700 AD after they were driven out of their country for not getting converted to Islam. Raja of Gujarat told parsis that our state has no enough resources to sustain new population and to indicate that he sent glass full of milk to leader of parsi community suggesting his state is full. Leader of parsi community added sugar in milk glass and sent it back to the King indicating that parsis will get mixed into Gujarati community as sugar gets mixed into milk making it sweet. Parsis were wholehearted welcome to Gujarat.
Narendra Modi taking leaf out of this historical incidence told Ratan Tata that he was read to add sugar to Tata’s glass of milk.
Nishka and Arvind – Good to read both you arguments, but I subscribe to 50-50 of both your views
We need a model similar to Europe – efficient public transport for office hours and private transport for weekends and holidays and off-peak hours. It would be insane to compare US standards of private transport with India for the obvious reasons: population density, effective governance, roads, purchasing power etc. In fact, even in US, they found out that more the good roads they lay, more will be growing vehicle population and then the cycle goes on and on. At the same time, we can’t rely on “current Indian bureaucratic” setup to provide us an efficient public transport. DMRC is often quoted, but exceptions cannot be examples!! As private transport grows, the govt may have to scramble for increasing oil imports – I can see how disastrous it would be. BRTS, MRTS, Metro, Mono – whatever please implement with PPP model asap to save our cities!!!
>>Frankly, I think the Nano is a messed up concept.The public cost will far outweighs the private cost
Why should a car manufacturer be blamed for all of this? In any case, in India, governments tend to act only when pushed to a corner. More choked roads and greater traffic congestion might actually force them to take infrastructure more seriously. So from a long term perspective the Tata Nano, might actually spur more investments in building wider roads, mass transit systems, better traffic management, stricter traffic law enforcements etc. Let the invisible hand of the free market forces prevail.
“Really, just simple math will tell you 1.1 bn in 1/3 the area vs. 300 mn. We are talking ~ 10 times the density of population.”
So Hattiesburg, Mississippi has same density as NYC?? This is flawed analysis. Have you ever visited New Jersey? Do you know what its population density is especially North and Central Jersey??
“At the same time, we can’t rely on “current Indian bureaucratic” setup to provide us an efficient public transport.”
But at the same time you tout that we need to have mass transit on the models of Europe. Yeah sure. Now which is easier building roads or building a mass-transit system??
“We need a model similar to Europe – efficient public transport for office hours and private transport for weekends and holidays and off-peak hours.”
I am fine that. However, you should leave the choice to the people or market. And should not favor one of the choices by making the other difficult either through legislation or stupid taxes. Have a level playing field.
“As private transport grows, the govt may have to scramble for increasing oil imports – I can see how disastrous it would be”
Not if we use CNG in cars. The top guy at GAIL recently said he predicts India will become self-sufficient in natural gas by 2012 and may then EVEN BE LOOKING FOR EXPORTS!!! Look, as I said b4 necessity is the mother of invention. I dunno why ppl underestimate the power of human innovation and entrepreneurial spirit.
“I bet you live in the US and support Pat Robertson er Sarah Palin”
Not at all. In fact, I hate the conservatives. These guys esply. the neocons are responsible for the huge budget US deficit today. And Sarah Palin — she is a populist and rants against those “greedy guys” at Wall Street forgetting in the first place that GREED is what SUSTAINS US!!
“In fact, even in US, they found out that more the good roads they lay, more will be growing vehicle population and then the cycle goes on and on”
No it wont. The US had a “consumerist model” where ppl could take huge debt happily and live from paycheck to paycheck. I don’t approve of that. I think saving is necessary for any civil society to be successful. But Indians, most of them, have ingrained this savings mentality so India won’t be US in that sense.
“Aham Brahmasi means individualism!!!”
That was my point. Was your statement meant to be sarcastic? Regarding Amma and Sri Sri it is their interpretation and I respect that but doesn’t mean I’ve to conform 100% to it.
Hey Stinger agree 100% with you. That was the same point I was trying to make. This is the attitude I don’t like. People know govt. is dysfunctional and accept it. Yet when there is any problem they run like crybabies for its help. Instead why not have a limited small govt. so that it can at least have the capability to do things efficiently. Govt. should at max be an enabler and facilitator not a do-er.
“I think the above statement itself says it all.”
Which statement? The one about scant evidence for human cause for global warming or the one about free market capitalism?? If it is the former, is this the best rebuttal you have ? Why is science getting politicized because of morons like Gore who strut around in their Gulfstreams and Escalades. If it is regarding the latter, we have a practical example in the case of India where after 91 reforms poverty has gone down significantly, don’t we??
Arvind
I too believe am a Libertarian but I hate to admit govts play a larger than life role every day every minute generally across the world, in particular a lot more in India. Even after 200 yrs of democracy and a mature free market, US based companies rushed to get state aid and look at how govt is bailing them out [in "larger public good??"]… So it’s tough to expect Indians to completely think on their own and not expect anything from the quasi-socialist GOI. You can’t expect markets to play a fair role in capacity building for roads, power plant etc, because state plays an impossible-to-curtail role and puts in complex checks and balances, which even lawyers cannot understand completely. Hence expecting 100% market forces to act in India is wishful thinking.
I would propose setting up public transport based on PPP model and making it easy for people to move across cities and discourage them using their own transport at least during peak hours. I am suggesting PPP model, because of complex laws existing which can’t be changed overnight but can be structured to accomodate MOUs between state and private players.
“I would propose setting up public transport based on PPP model and making it easy for people to move across cities and discourage them using their own transport at least during peak hours.”
I am all for PPP (but there should be accountability of the private player otherwise it jus become a government sanctioned monopoly). But I think mass transit in Europe is state-run if I am not wrong. By the way I am a libertarian not an ANARCHIST LOL !!! But why do you want to discourage the use of “private” transport? If there is enough congestion automatically some ppl would stop using it and take mass transit. That is the market solution and correct one I believe.
Also for these “big projects” like mass transit, power plant etc., the govt that gets involved in the PPP should for the most part be the local government; state and central government should have very little interference. For instance, for mass transit in Mumbai, Mumbai Corporation should be the main player in the PPP. Decentralized small government is the mantra.
For those who rally behind TATA and WB govt -
From one of the links googled [There are millions of links with this info]
1) According to the agreement, the West Bengal Government will provide Tata Motors a loan of Rs 200 crore at 1 per cent interest, repayable in five equal annual instalments starting from the 21st year from the date of disbursement of the loan.
2) The Government will provide electricity for the project at Rs 3 a kWh. In case the tariff is increased by more than 25 paise a unit in every block of five years, the Government will provide relief through additional compensation to neutralise the increase. This Rs. 3 a kWh is 30% less than what other industries get.
3) The agreement says that WBIDC will provide an industrial promotion assistance in the form of a loan at 0.1 per cent per annum for amounts equal to gross value-added tax and Central Sales Tax received by the State Government in each of the previous years ended March 31, on the sale of the small car from the date the sales begin.
This is my observation – Add to this the paltry compensation paid to the land owners by the WB govt. In fact, the govt was trying to make some margins in the land transactions!!!
Who is WB govt robbing to benefit TATA’s??
Is this how the great Indian middle class wants to ride the cheapest car in the world? Is this real free market where an industrialist enjoys so much subsidies, tax breaks and rolls out a car which would benefit a very small population but would still end up congesting our roads????
Those targeting Mamata alone, since she put a stumbling block to this project need to have a close look at these facts. If such subsidies had been rolled out to GM or Nissan, they would make cheaper cars too. But, western govts tax them for “larger public good”…
There is absolutely no public good or welfare in state/govts/centre supporting Nano project. Period.
Arvind
Agree to your point about getting the local govt involved. Local govts are more closer to people and hence should be more accountable to people.
@Venkat,
The problem is that Mamta’s obdurate stand has got nothing to do with subsidies/tax breaks given to TATAs, but is more to do with her own unique brand of populist competitive politics.
As for the subsidies and tax breaks, think about the subsidies/tax breaks/free land given to the IT/ITES sector which made a city like Bangalore the hub of such companies. Can anyone say that had the government not provided sops to the IT sector, the companies there would still have flourished and been globally competitive? I personally feel that the government should absolutely provide the right infrastructure and a conducive environment for businesses to expand. Beyond that it has no role. When all states are aggressively wooing industries, I dont see why the WB government shouldnt also do that. And If WB had retained the TATAs, the long term spinoffs from the project, might have far outweighed the short term costs that you mentioned.
@ Venkat
to add to your posting
http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=25c3d8e9-74e5-43e8-94d3-dd1d2be21992
This is the common story of all corporates, making millions from public money, our money…
“This is the common story of all corporates, making millions from public money, our money…”
Bollocks. If WB is not willing to do it, then Gujarat will do it. Gujaratis and especially Namo are not stupid. The reasoning is as given by Stinger. The potential benefits far exceed the costs.
Well, Chennai has taken a beating under the present kangres-allied administration. I was shocked to find an absence of any incentives offered by my state….Guess Chennai has to forgo the title of “Detroit of south asia”….Waiting eagerly for the elections….