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based on Dharma, Liberalism and Nationalism

Modi eulogises Gandhi while NGOs scrounge phone records

Well the star attraction at the Hindustan Times Leadership Summit it appears was not a lame duck Manmohan Singh nor an apologetic Sonia Gandhi but a rather combative Narendra Modi. The CNN-IBN reports

Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi on Friday refused to take blame for the riots in his state in 2002 and said the people would judge him.

?I have asked people of Gujarat to be the judge on the issue, and there is no greater judge than them,?

More than what Modi did not say about the riots, it is what he said in the context of development that was interesting.

Breaking political stereotypes Modi highlighted how local communities can come together and take responsibility with the right incentives.

He said he believed in Gandhi’s idea of ‘Gram Swarajya’, according to which village-level representatives should be appointed unanimously as elections led to violence and bad blood. Modi said shortly after he became the Chief Minister of Gujarat, 11,000 villages were due for elections and he announced a scheme wherein any village that unanimously chose its leaders would be given a development fund of Rs one lakh.

The media meanwhile continues with its anti-Modi tirade. An issue that has been lingering in the background for a while now is the issue of Phone Call Records from the period of the 2002 riots. An activist NGO Jan Sangarsh Manch lead by one Mukul Sinha has been touting alleged Compact Discs that it claims as “evidence” of “nexus between politicians, policemen and rioters”. The CDs were supposed to have been procured by IPS officer Rahul Sharma.

Pouring cold water on this so called evidence?two mobile operators Vodafone and Idea have written to the Godhra inquiry panel (Nanavati Commission )stating that they have not preserved the data of crucial phone records of calls made by mobile owners during the post-Godhra communal riots in Gujarat in 2002.

Now this is important for the NGO and the media will tout this as a conspiracy. Yours truly in his a day job is a Wireless Communications Expert. Having designed and consulted on Cellular Network, Offstumped can claim some knowledge on what call records contain in GSM/GPRS Networks. So here goes.

First off, nowhere the world over, including Europe the birth place of GSM/GPRS are call records, of the kind that the NGO is touting, preserved. In fact in the post 9-11 era on a specific query in Europe on preserving call records to track terrorist activities this is what the GSM Association had to say in its position paper titled “GSME Position on Data Retention Implications for the Mobile Industry” 23rd August 2005.

However, while LEAs have voiced a need for mandatory data retention requirements across the EU, there is still a lack of a clear and in-depth analysis of the benefits and the costs these proposals would have on society and industry, as well as the consequences for citizens and personal integrity.

Any EU-wide data retention obligations must be based on the principle that only data already processed and stored for billing, commercial and any other legitimate purposes be retained. Any requirements that go beyond this will have severe technical and financial implications and result in legal uncertainty for the industry.

So clearly what is retained is that which is processed and stored for billing purposes and not the raw data from the network.

Secondly it is also important to note what possible information the raw data could have contained. Much was made out by the NGOs of the call records to imply that they somehow provided accurate information on the position of the policemen and how they moved away when riots took place. It is important to note that GSM Call Records do not provide any direct information on location. What is however contained in the raw call records is something called the Cell ID. Now before one goes about drawing any inferences about location from Cell ID it is important to understand what the Cell ID means and does not mean.

The Cell ID refers to the strongest signal emitting base station that a give cellphone is communicating with. So at a given point in time any cellphone could be in the vicinity of one or more base stations and it is only signal strength that determines which Cell ID the cell phone latches on to and not location or distance.

Also the Cell sites typically span a radius that runs into a few Kilometres so there is no way to accurately pin point location, let alone draw inferences of the kind the NGO is claiming.

Lastly, this is most important. There is no way in GSM today for the Cell ID to be updated during a call. So if you are in a moving car or jeep and you started a call in Cell location X, and while you were driving if you traversed locations Y and Z, there is no way to establish that from the call records.

So clearly the raw call records cannot be the basis for drawing any kind of conclusive granular?inferences on location that can stand up to scrutiny in a court of law. At best one can say a given cell phone was in the vicinity of a cell tower but that could be anywhere in many KMs of radius. Beyond establishing the sequence of conversations between players these phone records will reveal nothing by themselves.

Offstumped Bottomline: As Mr. Modi said, the people of Gujarat will have to be the judge of his record in the assembly elections. While the NGOs try to spin conspiracy theories there is only so much technology that will come to their aid. They will need much more than phone records to establish this alleged nexus.

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38 Responses

  1. [...] http://offstumped.nationalinterest.in/2007/10/12/modi-eulogises-gandhi-while-ngos-scrounge-phone-rec... Let Others Know About This PostThese icons link to social bookmarking sites where readers can share and discover new web pages. [...]

  2. yossarin,good info on call id.As for MMS,man being a Punjabi self i feel ashamed of being one NOW,this man MMS is a really a MAN(?)mohan singh(Lion!).who should i ask?
    PI

  3. Gujjuman says:

    The scheme SAMRAS GRAM YOJANA had main objective of building trust and accelerate development by letting villages decide its priorities. Congress made huge hue and cry regarding this scheme, but with NAMO as bully it did get implemented. Sometime back, when I came across results this scheme had achieved I was amazed. I will try to find out the informations sources for same.

  4. yossarin says:

    Nagesh – great comparison seek your permission to include in a future offstumped post

  5. yossarin says:

    Gujjuman – look forward to the details

    PI – the question of “man” and “singh” have long been settled, the only open question is how much dignity and self respect is left.

  6. Balaji says:

    something Modi said in the HT conclave was interesting.

    That he had asked 11000 Villages to elect surpanchs unanimously to get Rs. 1 Lakh development fund and that 45% villages did make use of the offer. considering that many villages across the country do choose surpanchs unopposed (not unanimous), the Gujarat model seems very interesting.

    while Modi (atleast on paper) is taking the development agenda to its extremes, the ‘media’ is talking about the ‘atonement for the sins of the gujarathis’. what a farce.

  7. sankar says:

    Nobody has to atone except the Main stream media. These guys need a Yom kippur

  8. Nagesh says:

    Please go ahead and publish , infact I will give a modified script
    In 2005 I posted similar one here .

    http://richmond.indymedia.org/mod/comments/display/11844/index.php

    Also see this
    http://geocities.com/hsitah9/riots.html

  9. Nagesh says:

    Gujarat Riots in numbers . Who says Muslims are the only victims of riots ?

    http://www.intellibriefs.com/images/godhra.gif

    Also please get latest picture ( .PNG ) from here ….. http://intellibriefs.blogspot.com/2007/10/gujarat-riots-and-sikh-riots-quick.html

  10. RS says:

    What would have the Mahatma said about the “modern day Nero” if he was around?

    Btw, how can anyone compare riots so one of the accused look saintly? Shameful I say.

  11. [...] Modi has been hogging the headlines with his speech at the HT Summit and his interviews projecting an inclusive image, we are still clueless about the faces the [...]

  12. yossarin says:

    RS – he would have asked modi to discharge his dharma just as he would have asked MMS or SG to discharge theirs.

  13. RS says:

    Yossarin,

    What about his dharma in giving justice to Gujarat riot victims? Isnt it a fact that the Gujju Muslims have been systematically excluded from the Gujju mainstream. They are infact treated like pariahs. Of course u will say tht I am reading too much of Commie/NGO propaganda against the modern-day Nero. Then no one really believes any right-wing zealot will write on this.

    No matter how much he does on the economic front, he will never be a hero for me. After all the Supreme Court called him a modern-day Nero.

    I bet the Mahatma would have been ashamed to see a fellow Gujju like the modern-day Nero.

    Now pls dont reply with what the Mahatma would have felt about MMS and SG. U very well know that I dont support the Congress.

  14. RS says:

    Yossarin,

    One more thing i want to add.

    I been watching the way u are trying to build up the modern-day Nero as a hero of the Center-Right/Right of Center political spectrum based solely on the economic performance of Gujarat under his leadership.

    Gujarat was doing good on the economic front even before 1991 b’coz of the people of Gujarat who are the most entrepreneurial Indians. After India liberalised, Gujaratis just embraced the new way of doing business. Previous Guj BJP govts were also doing fine on the economic front. The modern-day Nero just took it further. So what the big deal here?

    Lastly, right-wing Hindus love the modern-day Nero not becasue he has taken the Guj economy further but for teaching Gujju Muslims a lesson that they will never forget.

  15. yossarin says:

    RS – There is a political case and a legal case against Modi. The political case was judged once when he won the last election, it will be judged again when he faces polls in december. If he wins resoundingly that should put to rest this debate of step motherly treatment. On the other hand if he loses or if he loses significant ground then it would be proof that what he has done was not enough and he has to go back to the people to do more. The legal case in any case will take its own course and one needs hard evidence not perception to make any allegations of legal wrong doing.

    My commentary on Modi is based on the simple fact that in an election year he has chosen to speak on the spirit of enterprise and not populism. If that is not a right of center economic agenda, what is ?

  16. RS says:

    Yossarin,

    Winning an election when the society was highly polarized on religious lines is no big thing. It doesn’t decide anything. Moreover, if it was decided for the first time then, then why did BJP under the modern-day Nero instead of sweeping Gujarat los 12 LS seats to the Congres in 2004 GE?

    Even if he wins a second trem, the debate of step motherly treatment of Muslims will not go away coz the Muslims of Gujarat are not in any numerical poistion to affect the poll outcome.

    On the legal front, he has already received a lot of slaps on his face from the SC, EC, etc. And mind you these slaps were as a result of hard evidence. That I think is more than enough to figure out whether he has done anything legally wrong or not. Also look at the way he runs away from any debate on his role in the Guj riots of 2002.

    Agreed the modern-day Nero in an election year has chosen ‘to speak on the spirit of enterprise and not populism and that is a right of center economic agenda’. Then the center-right/right of center also can’t accept people who have blood on their hands. If he is acceptable then my question is what is the difference between the modern-day Nero and Hitler?

  17. yossarin says:

    RS – dude give me a break, there has been no court judgement accusing him of criminal nexus or wrongdoing, if so he would be facing jail time. The slaps you are referring to are administrative in nature and MMS govt has had as many of them from the SC as well. You cant make the argument of “blood on the hand” based on lapses. Everyone knows and agrees there were lapses. Unless you can establish a conspiracy and a nexus, there is no case to be made here. Your comparison with Hitler is completely out of whack and you know that. We have a Constitutional Democracy here and he is an elected leader not a dictator. No elected leader no matter how despicable he maybe to you personally deserves to be compared with Hitler. What Hitler ran in Germany was a pogrom. What happened in Gujarat in 2002 was unacceptable and a blot in history but it was no pogrom. If one cant make the distinction between these two then there is no way to meaningful debate the issue.

  18. RS says:

    U need a break?? Trying to run away like ur hero? lol!

    Whether the modern-day Nero (MDN) has been convicted by a court or not is not important here as far as I am concerned. As the courts have noted, he is guilty of lapses in upholding the law that he swore to uphold. It was for nothing that the SC gave him the epithet “Modern Day Nero” and the former PM asked him to perform his Rajyadharma.

    And exactly becoz of this he has innocent blood of both Hindus and Muslims on his hands.

    Now as for whether the riots were a pogrom or not let us look at few facts.

    The Sanghis would like the people to believe that the riots were brought under control within a couple of days. This everyone knows is completely bogus. Just check out the archives of IE, TOI, NDTV, etc and one will see how the killings on various scales continued for more than two months. There is no doubt that in Gujarat the state machinery was put at the disposal of the Sanghis in carrying out their “programme” (please note I am not using the word ‘pogrom’ here). Even Hindu/Muslim couples who married for love long back were fished out using govt records and killed for their ‘crime’ by Sanghis. For more facts check out the newspaper archives.

    If these few facts don’t make it a pogrom then what makes it?

    Even today people accuse Rajiv Gandhi of genocide against the Sikhs and he was never taken to a court for that but that doesn’t mean he is not guilty of lapses.

    There were reports of some UK based Muslims taking MDN to Int’l Court of Justice. I am not sure of its exact status. If this is true then it is shameful coz he deserves to be judged here.

  19. jujung says:

    Hitler also came to power through democracy and he had huge following among Germans – which came because of Hitler’s effective campaigns evoking a sense of offended national pride.. and the nazi party electoral strength rose from a mere 6.5% in 1924 to 44% in 1933 under Hitler. And Hitler is known for efficiency, oratory, demogoguery and stupendous organizational skills.

    And when Modi’s govt. (whose party largely gained popularity by evoking a sense of offended cultural/religious pride) makes a mockery of constitutional principles, it’s only natural to see it as more of a pogrom than anything else.

    There is a difference between democracy and majoritarianism. So the point of his election putting to rest any debates about the step-motherly treatment, is itself debatable.

  20. Sach says:

    Some of the comments are very interesting and shows the mindset of these people. Modi is already made into a Hitler or a Nero and after that assumption, the abuse starts. Yes, his administration did falter in controling the Gujrat Riots, but hows does that make him into a Hitler or Nero. If he is a Hitler or Nero then what is Rajiv Gandhi? I was in Delhi at the time of Indira Gandhi’s assasination.The ongress Lumpen were given a free hand to massacare Sikhs for 2 full days. He then trivialised the massacare by saying that “When a big tree falls, the earth shakes.”
    It has become fashion to hate Modi and twist facts and figures about the riots. Just recently I heard the smug Rajdeep Sardesai lying about the riots. He called it the biggest riot in post Independent India,as if the Sikh riots did not take place or maybe they were not human beings in his eyes. He of course blatantly lied about the figures. The 1200 victim of the Gujrat riots became 2000 victims.

    Yossarin, your posts are wonderful. Keep up the good work.

  21. yossarin says:

    Sach – thanks for sharing your experiences and your kind words

    RS, Jujung – facts guys no perceptions or vague references. Back up your allegations with hard facts.

  22. RS says:

    Sach,

    If the ‘’sach” according to RSS is what u trust then I have nothing to say.

    Yossarin,

    I knew u would run away from this debate by asking for “facts”.

    We all know that u r a good digger. Why dont u dig up the facts urself from the archives of various news sites? If we can accept all that u dig up from news sites to back ur blogposts as facts then whatever that was reported on the riots too can be accepted as facts to back up the ‘allegations’ agaisnt MDN.

    Just an example of MDN’s crime:
    It was clearly reported in the media how MDN closed all relief camps housing Muslims soon after the riots and threw them all out. If u want links dig it up urself coz I dont have the time now. But if u insist I will get it later.

    Just today on CNN-IBN MDN stops an interview with Thapar when he asked about his role in the riots. If he is clean then why run away for the second time in two weeks?

    Let me tell u once again, a person like MDN with blood on his hands can never be a hero of the Center-Right. He can only be the hero of the extreme right-wing. Maybe it is time for u to change ur tagline to “For All Things Extreme Right”.

  23. Sanjuro says:

    rs :
    sINCE YOU ARE THE ONE ACCUSING MODY, DON’T YOU THINK, THE ONUS IS ON YOU TO PRODUCE THE PROOF? i THINK YOSSARIS HAS A POINT HERE WHEN HE SAYS “Agreed the modern-day Nero in an election year has chosen ‘to speak on the spirit of enterprise and not populism and that is a right of center economic agenda’. Then the center-right/right of center also can’t accept people who have blood on their hands. If he is acceptable then my question is what is the difference between the modern-day Nero and Hitler?”
    AND PLEASE WE ALL KNOW, HOW BIASED OUR PSUEDO-SECULAR MEDIA IS.

  24. H Varadhan says:

    Offstumped has hit-wicket itself:

    Offstumped has fallen into a pit like the Gujarat Govt. appearing before Nanavati-Shah Commission.

    There are records of Cell companies submitted records on the demand by Gujarat Govt. itself. Shri Rahul Sharma, DIG, who was put in charge authenticated the following: (1) the CD submitted as evidence to above commission and (2) a copy of the CD submitted to the Banerjee Commission.

    Under recently framed IT act, an electronic copy can be treated as evidence even without the original.

    While Gujarat Govt conveniently claims that the original CDs are “lost” (this is, of course, not destruction of evidence according to Offstumped and other Saffron Brigands), there is another copy which is evidence as per law. So the screw continues to tighten on the Govt. and the prosecution.

    Is it not that from all that is happening in Nanavati-Shah Commission, it is the Jan Sangarsh Manch (JSM) which is acting as the prosecution and BJP etc and the Govt is acting as the defendent. So prima facie, who is the accused?

    Do not worry, Offstumped, when the real screw comes on the perpetrators of heinous crimes, the likes of you will run helter-skelter covering your ass, lest …

  25. H Varadhan says:

    Offstumped / Yossarin:

    You claim to be apolitical yet your parent, Times of India, (Ahmedabad Edition) is running “free” propoganda for Modi since the elections were declared in Gujarat!! Fortunately, only 1% of voters read Times of India which runs only on exposition of female anatomy. Your political colour is so obvious that I wonder weather we are living in the nakedness of a nudist society – absolutely shameless.

    Regarding technical issues, the cell companies provided detailed information to Gujarat Govt on its demand – much more than just so for billing information. The caller location is positively identified by the cell companies. While the caller location does fluctuate time to time it is always with the neighbouring transmitting tower. Using computer s/w these fluctuations can actually be used for deriving more information on the callers location. Unfortunately for you, the suspect callers have made or received so many calls per hour that they leave a trail of their movement.

    If you have any respect for facts etc and followed the proceedings of the Nanavati-Shah Commission, you would realise that every evidence that the Govt. has produced is in shreds, that includes the “petrol theory”. The FSL expert Mr Talati confessed on cross-examination that “he (Mr. Talati) knows nothing” thereby negating his own affidavit on “petrol found on burned samples” conclusions. While the BJP Govt. refuses to use the cell call records which itself procured (as per standard procedures) and managed to “lose” the evidence (ha ha!), it is the Jan Sangarsh Manch (JSM) which is playing the role of co-prosecutor helping the investigations of the commission. This is ofcourse, intolerable to Offstumped and Yossarin.

    Whether you like it or not, JSM’s legal and technical/ scientific skills can not be matched by the battery of high-priced advocates and the entire Govt. machinery. Instead of appreciating the role of the JSM in the Nanavati-Shah Commission you choose to critisize/debunk it. It is only because of the role of the JSM as the prosecutor of the criminals in the ruling power of Gujarat that this Commission has not been able to come out with a report (because to give green-chit to the present Govt. would expose the commission). Is it not a pity that Modi can not use any aspect of this Commission in this current elections of Gujarat?

  26. yossarin says:

    Mr. Varadhan – From the brief your holding for the said NGO I am assuming you represent it some fashion. Very well if the evidence is so damning make it public. Let experts of all persuasions examine it for what it is and give their opinion. What you are loosely referring to as Caller Location is no location but a radius spanning many kilometres ? If you possess some “black” magical scientific technique to pinpoint this so called location make it public let us debate it. If your data is accurate Offstumped will withdraw this post and apologize. If your data and your claims dont stand up to scientific scrutiny then SJM should withdraw itself from this case and apologize to the people of Gujarat, are you up to the challenge ?

  27. H Varadhan says:

    Dear Yossarin,

    It is obvious I am part of Jan Sangarsh Manch (JSM). I wish you had attended some of the innumerable sittings of the Nanavati-Shah Commission (constituted by Govt headed by Shri Narendra Modi). The difference between all other such commissions and this is the vast amount of documentary evidence generated which completely refute the Govt. position on Godhra incidence and the aftermath.

    It is a pity that you are unaware of the real world situation. The entire proceedings of the commission are accesible to the public and religiously attended by the media reporters. Extracts are printed in newspapers (gujarati/local and national) and covered by TV channels as they deem fit. For your information, people of Gujarat follow these details carefully and it is no longer one-sided opinion (Narendra Modi’s version) even amonst the Hindu population that runs in Gujarat as a result of the hard work put in by JSM.

    It is easy for you to hide behind a web page and express ones opinion. I invite you to appear in person to debate anything and everything with Dr Mukul Sinha, leader of JSM, whose name is very well known along with JSM(thanks to this commission). Will you accept the challenge?

    There is enough evidence to convict the main actors of Gujarat riots of 2002. JSM does not expect the commisiion to give such a verdict – it is also not able to give a Modi-dictated verdict/finding lest it loses all credebility. The proceedings/recordings of the commission, instead, will be used to prosecute the culprits in courts in Gujarat as and when possible (only JSM has the guts to say so). JSM has access to top-class lawyers in High Courts and Supreme Court to do so.

    JSM does not apologize to anyone for its actions and for your information JSM is held in high esteem by people of Gujarat, as well as of India and also the World.

    For your kind information again, JSM, as the name suggests, is a Civil Liberties Organisation and NOT an NGO. I wonder whether you even understand the vast difference between the two !!

  28. yossarin says:

    Mr. Varadhan – Thanks for educating me on the difference between a NGO and a Civil Liberties Organisation. The specific point of debate here is the Phone records and the scientific basis for your claim. I am passing no judgement on other evidence you may posssess or have presented. I havent seen any public record of the contents of the CDs that you claim can pin point the location. Make the phone records data available over the Internet and I will debate in person without the cloak of anonymity. That is a challenge accepted.

  29. [...] 12th October Offstumped carried this post on the  phone records in a CD presented by the JSM to the Nanavathi Commission in which it [...]

  30. True facts about godhra and riots

    http://truecongresspolitics.wordpress.com/2007/11/26/facts-speak-for-themselves

    GODHRA INCIDENT

    BURNING ALIVE OF 58 INDIAN CITIZENS TRAVELLING IN

    COACH S-6 OF SABARMATI EXPRESS

  31. Sharat says:

    “JSM does not apologize to anyone for its actions and for your information ” By Mr. H Varadhan….

    ” JSM, as the name suggests, is a Civil Liberties Organisation” By Mr. H Varadhan

    Well…we are having some shameless individuals or a group or individuals wearing the mask of Civil Liberties…..

    If you look at the track records of these so called Civil Liberties org’s….they look abysmally dismal…

    These groups in Gujarat are paid by Congress and will vanish after Narendra Modi wins the elections…

    This all Liberties Organisation is a big gimmick…

    I wonder where these organizations were when 8,000 sikhs were killed in New delhi …or when more then a Million Pandits were drove from Kashmir..there homes were burnt down…there livilihood was taken away from them…

    Down with such kind of groups which only want to have publicity ..rather than do some good work for people of gujarat or elsewhere in india…

    JSM or whatever…please go out of gujarat…we don’t need you…..

  32. sukhdev says:

    @Varadhan
    “JSM is held in high esteem by people of Gujarat, as well as of India and also the World.”

    mwhahahaha, good joke. Pls continue snorting the white powder and show off your smug attitude.

    Smarts trump smugs, always.

  33. [...] nor is the deduction of location ever challenged, until of course Offstumped came along with this post and subsequently this challenge and these scientific [...]

  34. [...] nor is the deduction of location ever challenged, until of course Offstumped came along with this post and subsequently this challenge and these scientific [...]

  35. [...] on the source of the analysis and the need for independent scientific scrutiny. This follows this post and subsequently this challenge and these scientific [...]

  36. [...] on the source of the analysis and the need for independent scientific scrutiny. This follows this post and subsequently this challenge and these scientific [...]

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